beez
Reserve Grade
Posts: 250
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Post by beez on Sept 22, 2008 18:58:47 GMT 10
Yeah Wellington's players are basically in Australia. They will play here up until age 20 (probably younger these days) and then they're off. They pretty much make the Jr Kiwis and then there's nothing left for them in Wellington.
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Post by Marv on Sept 22, 2008 21:32:20 GMT 10
two to one what? Really a lot of what beez said is to me a lot more, i dunno, convinving than kiwi fan. Why? because its what you want to hear? |
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Post by Ryan N on Sept 22, 2008 21:55:35 GMT 10
Well, Beez is an older person who lives in Wellington (however I do not believe I am allowed to mention ages) and basically like I said, Keebra Park Sports High and whatnot proved it, i watched a whole show on it once and they certainly import a lot of players over from New Zealand. Kiwi Fan's point of view is from a younger person who is talking about hsi experiences within his friend group. Sure I can say the majority of kids and my friends play Rugby League but hey, that's under 16s, not all the exceptional players are gonna go somewhere in Rugby League but they could still end up Union stars. So what about all the New Zealand players who play Union, they could end up League stars, especially if there was another team. Besides, look at Moruya (where I go to school) no one really fancies Union but in Narooma, just down the road, close to where I live (probably a big drive for someone from England though haha) Union is something they look forward too. So maybe Kiwi Fan's suburb Union is more popular but hey, maybe down the other side of town League dominates. You can not just assume the negative always as you seem to have been doing lately, you have to take the different points, sure, but then you have to weigh up the credibilities. Kiwi Fan is from the RL2 game forums and my experiences there, well take a look for yourself and I'm not sure where Beez is from to get here but you know, there could be more credibility. Also, if I remember correctly when I first started these forums Kiwi Fan (notsure as he was known back then) had moderating powers and for some reason, well I assume he had a bit of a hissy fit and he decided to screw around and ruin a lot of my work on these forums. Now, I have forgiven that as he can not do much damage now and people can change but for these reasons I belive Beez would have more credibility than kiwi Fan, you are allowed to have your own opinion but my opinion is like a Wikipedia reference versus that of an encyclopaedia. So yeah, well you know that's it.
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Post by Ryan N on Sept 22, 2008 22:05:06 GMT 10
I'm not saying I have a problem with Kiwi Fan at all, he's a member of the forum and has just as much right as anybody but I am having a problem with you Marv and the constant attempts to shut me down and I felt that it was time I started to justify myself.
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Post by Marv on Sept 23, 2008 3:00:41 GMT 10
Keebra Park Sports High and whatnot proved it, i watched a whole show on it once and they certainly import a lot of players over from New Zealand. so the actions of one school proved the fact that NZ needs another Franchise? Its blatantly obvious there are enough Kiwi players for two franchises but are there the fans, the sponsors, the infrastructure.the two kiwi fans were debating if there would even be a stadium fit for purpose. Kiwi Fan's point of view is from a younger person who is talking about hsi experiences within his friend group. Sure I can say the majority of kids and my friends play Rugby League but hey, that's under 16s, not all the exceptional players are gonna go somewhere in Rugby League but they could still end up Union stars. So what about all the New Zealand players who play Union, they could end up League stars, especially if there was another team. Besides, look at Moruya (where I go to school) no one really fancies Union but in Narooma, just down the road, close to where I live (probably a big drive for someone from England though haha) Union is something they look forward too. So maybe Kiwi Fan's suburb Union is more popular but hey, maybe down the other side of town League dominates. Maybe, I can say maybe, we are saying maybe because we dont know, and I think the two kiwi guys do know, so i dont really see where you are going. You can not just assume the negative always as you seem to have been doing lately, you have to take the different points, sure, but then you have to weigh up the credibilities. I say what I see, my opinions are adding to the debate, If I think something is worth commenting on positively OR negatively, I will. We could just agree on everything everybody says, then when it doesnt happen we can all dream about some other flight of fancy. Fact is there is a hell of a lot of hard work to do before a lot of thing suggested on these forums could even be classed a dream. If I think your, or anybody elses ideas are flawed or your being unrealistic i will say something, you are one member of this forum who consistently asseses things way above reality, there are others. Kiwi Fan is from the RL2 game forums and my experiences there, well take a look for yourself and I'm not sure where Beez is from to get here but you know, there could be more credibility. and so where did you come from before here? Where did I come from before here? WTF does it matter? that is the most irrelevant comment you have come out with for a long time. Also, if I remember correctly when I first started these forums Kiwi Fan (notsure as he was known back then) had moderating powers and for some reason, well I assume he had a bit of a hissy fit and he decided to screw around and ruin a lot of my work on these forums. Now, I have forgiven that as he can not do much damage now and people can change but for these reasons I belive Beez would have more credibility than kiwi Fan, so its a personal thing rather than a fact based thing, which is what the forums should be about you are allowed to have your own opinion but my opinion is like a Wikipedia reference versus that of an encyclopaedia. So yeah, well you know that's it. what on earth are you talking about? your opinion matters as much as anyone on the forum, but when you come out with rubbish like "Catalans could easily fill the olympic stadium" when you didint even know the capacity of the ground! what do you expect me to say? |
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Post by Marv on Sept 23, 2008 3:03:04 GMT 10
I'm not saying I have a problem with Kiwi Fan at all, he's a member of the forum and has just as much right as anybody but I am having a problem with you Marv and the constant attempts to shut me down and I felt that it was time I started to justify myself. grow up ryan, I would "shut anyone down" when they come out with unrealistic expectations, it aint just you, if you cant take the heat get out the kitchen. |
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Post by kuwaitikev on Sept 23, 2008 5:51:40 GMT 10
It is an interesting debate.
There ARE pockets of Rugby League fans in Wgtn (Porirua, Wainuiomata, Upper Hutt in particular) and we would love to have NRL action down here.
A lot of die hard Warriors fans like myself have never actually seen them live.
BUT I don't think there is the population or the money to make a second team particularly viable. At the end of the day it all comes down to money and compared to Australia and England NZ just can't compete on either of those 2 counts. By population I mean supporter base not players as looking through the NRL, ESL and Toyota Cup there is certainly plenty of Wgtn talent running about.
Perhaps a shared home franchise could be viable with the Orcas playing half their games in Christchurch. It wouldn't be ideal (something similar has been tried and failed in the NZ rugby comp a couple of times) but if it makes a team possible i'd be all for it.
GO THE MIGHTY UPPER HUTT TIGERS!
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Post by Kiwi fan on Sept 23, 2008 15:39:50 GMT 10
It is an interesting debate. There ARE pockets of Rugby League fans in Wgtn (Porirua, Wainuiomata, Upper Hutt in particular) and we would love to have NRL action down here. A lot of die hard Warriors fans like myself have never actually seen them live. BUT I don't think there is the population or the money to make a second team particularly viable. At the end of the day it all comes down to money and compared to Australia and England NZ just can't compete on either of those 2 counts. By population I mean supporter base not players as looking through the NRL, ESL and Toyota Cup there is certainly plenty of Wgtn talent running about. Perhaps a shared home franchise could be viable with the Orcas playing half their games in Christchurch. It wouldn't be ideal (something similar has been tried and failed in the NZ rugby comp a couple of times) but if it makes a team possible i'd be all for it. GO THE MIGHTY UPPER HUTT TIGERS! RL is strong out in the hutt but (really, really not trying to offend anyone here) gernerally league players in the hutt are quite poor so I don't know how many of them could actually come into the stadium for the games. Wellington sure has shown strong supportorship in the past of its teams but the NRL is a very long season so I can't see supporters staying long term. What Wellington needs is more test matches and maybe the odd Warriors match to see if the intrest is still there for another NZ team. I reckon Christchurch is a viable option. They have AMI Stadium and rugby is the only sport with a professional team. They also need a few games to see how much support they can generate. A league team in the Christchurch could help spread league throughout the South island, it could reignite league on the west coast, it could spread the game into Otago. The viability of Christchurch could still be easily questioned. What really should be done in NZ, is develop a really good domestic competition. We do have a domestic competition at the moment the National Rugby League Premiership (or something). The problem with our doemestic competition is that it always gets screwed around with and it needs some real structure. the crowdsa at these games would porobably average about 100, compare to the NZ Football Championship which gets about 1000 despite football being not as popular in NZ. I reckon a strong domestic competition could get a lot more people back into rugby league. |
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Post by Marv on Sept 23, 2008 17:28:52 GMT 10
A lot of die hard Warriors fans like myself have never actually seen them live. I know this is only in theory kev but would you, if a second NZ franchise came to, support the new franchise or stay loyal to the warriors? BUT I don't think there is the population or the money to make a second team particularly viable. At the end of the day it all comes down to money and compared to Australia and England NZ just can't compete on either of those 2 counts. By population I mean supporter base not players as looking through the NRL, ESL and Toyota Cup there is certainly plenty of Wgtn talent running about. yeah, as i said there is no doubt whatsoever there are enough kiwi players for another franchise but is the rest of the nessacery infrastructure there, the genral concensus appears not....... Perhaps a shared home franchise could be viable with the Orcas playing half their games in Christchurch. this might sound a dumb question for a kiwi boy, but Im English, so is there a rivalry between Christchurch and Wellington, would a shared franchise work in that way. |
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Post by Kiwi fan on Sept 23, 2008 17:32:36 GMT 10
Perhaps a shared home franchise could be viable with the Orcas playing half their games in Christchurch. this might sound a dumb question for a kiwi boy, but Im English, so is there a rivalry between Christchurch and Wellington, would a shared franchise work in that way. I don't reckon shared franchises work full stop. I think a team needs a home, 1 or 2 games could be moved but not 6. |
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Post by Marv on Sept 23, 2008 17:38:38 GMT 10
What Wellington needs is more test matches and maybe the odd Warriors match to see if the intrest is still there for another NZ team. yeah it should be the first thng they do to test the water, so to speak. I reckon Christchurch is a viable option. They have AMI Stadium and rugby is the only sport with a professional team. They also need a few games to see how much support they can generate. A league team in the Christchurch could help spread league throughout the South island, it could reignite league on the west coast, it could spread the game into Otago. The viability of Christchurch could still be easily questioned. I know very little about RL on the south island, but from outside, and on a purely geographical sense it would be a good option, because as you say it could help the rest of the island grow the game. If there was a call for it. What really should be done in NZ, is develop a really good domestic competition. We do have a domestic competition at the moment the National Rugby League Premiership (or something). The problem with our doemestic competition is that it always gets screwed around with and it needs some real structure. the crowdsa at these games would porobably average about 100, compare to the NZ Football Championship which gets about 1000 despite football being not as popular in NZ. I reckon a strong domestic competition could get a lot more people back into rugby league. yeah from what I hear domestic RL in NZ is/was having a hard time and its not a good enough standard comp to farm players ready for higher level of competition, same with France. stronger domestic leagues for NZ and France can obnly help the SL/NRL franchises. This is why in some ways its not all roses having the Auckland side in the NSW league and same with Catalans in the reserve grade here, its taking even more talent out of what are, already poor quality leagues. |
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Post by Druzik on Sept 23, 2008 17:40:38 GMT 10
There are some very interesting comments here. Now I am not very knowledgeable on teh state of NZ rugby league... just the scores,  so I'll refrain from direct comments. But I did have a thought. Would some sort of competition, knockout style, like the Panasonic cup help to develop some of the stronger NZ team... even other Aus teams in general? So hear me out. If anyone remembers the Panasonic cup in the 70 and 80's (I do remember them later on) then it was a tournament based on 4 round robbin groups, played mid week and then the top 2 from each group would go through to a quarter finals etc... Now could something similar be brought back in at the lower tier level and promoted properly and given coverage to help teams develop. I'll work out something over the weekend and post it next week just to see how it will fly. |
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Post by Druzik on Sept 23, 2008 17:55:38 GMT 10
...way above reality, there are others. That'd be me I guess.  |
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Post by Marv on Sept 23, 2008 17:57:42 GMT 10
That'd be me I guess. not just you, but as i say your opinion, jims, ryans, kiwi, beez, rhino, spud, everyones opinion is valid, just because mine is less positive than most on here doesnt make it right or wrong does it? |
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Post by Druzik on Sept 23, 2008 17:59:05 GMT 10
This is why in some ways its not all roses having the Auckland side in the NSW league and same with Catalans in the reserve grade here, its taking even more talent out of what are, already poor quality leagues. That is an interesting observation... never looked at it that way. It may also be why it leads the Elite 1 teams to buy expensice Aussies that send them near broke. |
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so I'll refrain from direct comments.