European Shield - 2008

[jim]

I think all the euro tournaments will.

On Lewis' plan he has the 4 nations next year as well as a european cup.

That leads me to think that England and France will play 4 nations while Ireland, Scotland, Wales and maybe the winner of the euro-med will play the euro championships.

It could work something like this:

Euro Cup: Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Russia (whoever wins euro-med)
Euro Plate: Serbia, Lebanon, Italy
Euro Shield: Germany, Czech Republic, Ukraine
Euro Bowl: Latvia, Estonia, Austria

Also maybe teams like Greece, Malta, Portugal etc can be included.

Euro Cup: Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Russia (whoever wins euro-med)
Euro Plate: Serbia, Lebanon, Italy, Germany
Euro Shield: Morrocco, Czech Republic, Ukraine, Malta
Euro Bowl: Latvia, Estonia, Greece, Portugal
Euro (Tier 5): Austria, UAE

Something like that would be ideal IMO. Gives all teams a year to year goal. The winner of each comp plays 4th from the tier above to try and move up. Also get England and France involved in the euro cup before too long.

[Spider]

I think that the first option is more realistic. Involving Greeks, Portuguese and Moroccans without having home based players is pushing their opponent to war field. They are simply too strong for Shield/Bowl teams you mentioned. Maybe, some kind of Euro-Sydney Challenge would be good for Greece, Malta, Morocco and Portugal

[jim]

Aug 2, 2008 18:40:41 GMT 10 Spider said:

I think that the first option is more realistic. Involving Greeks, Portuguese and Moroccans without having home based players is pushing their opponent to war field. They are simply too strong for Shield/Bowl teams you mentioned. Maybe, some kind of Euro-Sydney Challenge would be good for Greece, Malta, Morocco and Portugal

Yeh that would probably be better for the time being. That is the reason they weren't involed this time wasn't it? because they have no real domestic comp.

Like the idea of the Euro-Sydney Challenge.

[jim]

Germany 62 def Czech Republic 20

German skipper Leo Burngruber, in his final international appearance, led his side to a convincing 11-try victory over the Czech Republic in Karlsruhe to take runners up spot behind Italy in the Euro Shield.

The hosts were at full strength, picking from a squad of 36 at their final training session, while the visitors were without their captain Jan Sluka and inspirational Michal Priputen but gave debuts to three of their up and coming stars from the Beroun Panthers youth side.

The Germans had the match won by the break, building an impressive 40-6 lead with scrum half Berngruber leading the way with a brace of touchdowns and the Keinhorst brothers in fine form, Nick also posting a double and hooker Jimmy dominant in midfield, adding a touchdown and six goals.

Simon Cooper and Michael Mark also crossed for the hosts, Andrew Muhall replying and Michael Kucera converting for the over-run Czech’s.

The visitors never recovered from their slow start, only substitute Martin Majovsky making a real impact with his high work rate in defence and leading their better showing in the second period.

Kucera added a try and a further goal in the second period and back rower Stepan Louda found the line twice but Jimmy Keinhorst finished with 26 points from a two try, nine goal haul, centre Patrick Rhustorfer, Mark again and Nico Koch completing the scoring for the Germans.

The match was taken to Karlsruhe as a promotion for the sport and was rewarded with a healthy crowd in attendance.

GERMANY
1 Dominic Bastian
2 Michael Claser
3 Patrick Rhustorfer
4 Nico Koch
5 Nick Keinhorst
6 Kristian Keinhorst
7 Leo Burngruber
8 Benediht Rehm
9 Jimmy Keinhorst
10 Moritz Hottenrott
11 Janis Krause
12 Alex Klopper
13 Simon Cooper
Subs (all used)
14 Michael Mark
15 Micky Reinhold
16 Jeremy Joerger
17 Liam Doughton

Tries: N. Keinhorst 2, Cooper, Berngruber 2, Mark 2, J. Keinhorst 2, Rhustorfer, Koch

Goals: J. Keinhorst 9

CZECH REPUBLIC
1 Dolak David
2 Radek Franc
3 David Safranek
4 Marcel Mana
5 Ondres Suk
6 Michal Kucera
7 Stanislav Kuapic
8 Premysl Bradle
9 Andrew Muhall
10 Tomas Kurka
11 Richard Janus
12 Stepan Louda
13 Jaroslav Stribny
Subs (all used)
14 Michal Hora
15 Jan Buben
16 Ota Kasal
17 Martin Majovsky

Tries: Muhall, Kucera, Louda 2

Goals: Kucera 2

Men of the match: GERMANY – Jimmy Keinhorst CZECH REPUBLIC – Martin Majovsky

Half time: 40-6

Referee: Darren Scott (Wales)

[Spider]

It would be interesting to see how would Czechs do vs "lower-tier" European nations. In my opinion, they would beat Estonians, Latvians would be tough and Ukraine would beat them.

Essential for the development of RL in these three nations and all the others below them is to form the real domestic competition. When I wrote "real" I meant "continuous-through-the-year", not just playing when touring teams arrive.

[jim]

Aug 4, 2008 1:34:02 GMT 10 Spider said:

It would be interesting to see how would Czechs do vs "lower-tier" European nations. In my opinion, they would beat Estonians, Latvians would be tough and Ukraine would beat them.

Essential for the development of RL in these three nations and all the others below them is to form the real domestic competition. When I wrote "real" I meant "continuous-through-the-year", not just playing when touring teams arrive.

Yeh I agree, Ukraine would be dissapointed they didn't play on the weekend because they would have been favorites. Hopefully Ukraine can take it on themselfs to play and international this year, maybe Russia are looking for a EMC Warm Up.

This result also shows me that if Italy had not relied on so many overseas players for the first game I dare say Germany would now be Euro-Shield champions. Germany dealt with the Czechs in a more convincing fashion than Italy did and I would back Germany to beat the Italy side that played Czech Republic.

As you say it should be top of the list for all nations involved to get full domestic seasons going. Ukraine could have a league underneath Legion sort of like a feeder league to the semi-pro side. Germany did have some sort of domestic comp happen this year I think. Italy definatley need to get to work on a domestic comp.

Also Greece, Malta, Portugal and Morrocco should all be trying to get a league established so they enter in these tournaments.

Anyway now that the Bowl and Shield and done and dusted for this year I wonder what now? Will there be any Promotion/relegation? I would like to see Latvia play Czech Republic for a spot in the euro-shield next year. Likewise with Italy and the loser of the euro-med and maybe even the winner of the euro med V Wales or something.

[Spider]

Well, the question is what would Germany look like without their overseas players. They are the engine of the both Italian and German team. Maybe, RLEF could put smaller "overseas-quota" for their lower competitions (EMC, ENS, ENB), and to make it something like this*:
- maximum of 1 NRL/SuperLeague player,
- maximum of 2 other semi-pros or NRL/SuperLeague junior/academy players
- the rest up to 6 other league players born and raised abroad of country.

Euro Bowl maybe shouldn't have any of "foreigners", because that competition is the matter of development, not thrashing the opponent. I think that these teams didn't have any of them, maybe some foreign citizens residing in Estonia and Latvia, maybe even not.
_____
* - This is just a proposition, the numbers are probably not adequate.

[Druzik]

Well the Germans only rely on 4/5 players, as it is with this game 2, Markus Keinhorst and Dan stocks were not playing. They had 36 players top choose from which means that a bit of depth is starting to form there. The fact that Leo is retiring now means there is someone to come in take his spot. I think Simon will be retiring as well soon, so spots are going to be up for grabs. The rhineland team based in Huerth is starting to bring in a few new young players now.

The italian team also only had 5 or 6 OS based players. The rest were italian.

The Latvians and Estonians are all local players.

[si]

The Italians had a couple of Pro players from Australia play against Germany and thats something personally I do not agree with-especially as one had already played for Samoa! I think that if you are going to have any "Ex Pats" they should be based in Europe. I say that because I think they are more able to help the domestic players and having Training sessions etc. Are these Aussies going to come across every year? Italy had 4 players from the UK anyway including a Pro from Keighley, but to add the Pro Aussie players was not on in our opinion. I would like a maximum of 6 Overseas players from the 17 and the rest must be domestic. Currently its set at 10-which I feel is too high. I would also like to see you could only use 1 player who is professional. Its suppossed to be a development competition after all.

Germany have never used more than 5 players that are not based in Germany. Dan Stocks who is the Trainer and also comes across to run training sessions like in Hürth this year etc and also sets up training plans for teams and individuals and has been with us since 2005 when we started up as a Germany Development.
The 4 Keinhorst Brothers speak fluent German and are often in Germany visiting family in Bochum. Again they have been with us since our beginning in 2005 and are not here just for the glory as they rarely miss any games for Germany. Markus is currently in Canada for work so thats why he has not played this year.
Both Dan Stocks and the Keinhorsts set up the German Exiles team in England that play in the Midlands Merit League. IF any UK based player wants to play for Germany they MUST play for the Exiles.

[si]

Aug 4, 2008 21:06:29 GMT 10 Spider said:

Well, the question is what would Germany look like without their overseas players..

We only had 3 Overseas players against the Czechs. The lowest we have ever had. We used alot of youngsters like Micky Reinhold (18), Liam Doughton (German born and bred) (17), Nico Koch (19), Jimmy Keinhorst (18), Nick Keinhorst (20), Benedikt Rehm (22). We also used 17 year old fabrice Fehlemann against Italy as well. What probably helps us is the fact that Jimmy Keinhorst is at hooker, Kristian Keinhorst is at 6 and usually myself or Dan Stocks are at 13-The 3 main pivots of attack. All our players are amateur and we have never used any Professional players although Jimmy is in his 2nd week on trial at Halifax.

[Spider]

Maybe I was not clear in my previous post. I meant 6 in total "overseas" players. And you wrote exactly what I thought, those three of Germans were playing on those 3 extremely important positions.

I just say that we shouldn't throw on Italians, 'cause as I understood, they faced weaker team to Czechs than to Germany.

I agree with jim about promotion/relegation repechage (play-off).