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Post by Druzik on Feb 12, 2009 2:17:24 GMT 10
Well e3l,we didn't win the award but at least we still won the world cup aye mate..The kiwis have turned a new leaf i believe,and the time has come for them to show that they are no longer a one off win team..I wish them the best of luck in their efforts to beat Ozy and England again this year....Go the kiwis.  The Kiwis' victory at last year's world cup is the biggest moment in New Zealand sport since it last won the Americas' Cup. Like the Americas' Cup, they had to climb Mt. Everast to win the RLWC. But I am sure the selection pannel had its old boys brigade in there... not necessairly pro Union, but not sympathetic to League cause... |
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Post by Kiwi fan on Feb 12, 2009 17:17:26 GMT 10
People should, of course, still realise that it's a celebration of NZ sport and the Everswindell's achievement was still amazing. Going up against Olympic sports is definately tough but this basically means that the Kiwis can never win the Halberg. Anyway we have better silverware in our cuboard.
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Post by arh21980 on Feb 17, 2009 11:31:09 GMT 10
Some of you guys might jump down my throat for this I would love to see a "grand slam" tournament for Australia, New Zealand to play England, France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
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Post by Kiwi fan on Feb 17, 2009 14:27:45 GMT 10
Some of you guys might jump down my throat for this I would love to see a "grand slam" tournament for Australia, New Zealand to play England, France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. In rugby no one down under cares about the grand slam so I doubt the league concept will be more interesting. I think ashes tours every 4-5 years is a must with GB touring down under. The Cricket ashes and the rugby lions tours are both immensely popular despite not always involving the best teams in their sports. |
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Post by Druzik on Feb 17, 2009 16:42:29 GMT 10
Some of you guys might jump down my throat for this I would love to see a "grand slam" tournament for Australia, New Zealand to play England, France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. No... tours are also a thing of the past. Regular meaningful tournaments... Its the way things are going, you need to start involving as many nations as possible in a few well organised menaingful tournies. You cant just have RL surviuve on the back of 2-4 countries doing their thing. Unnion does this and despite its provado is in a dour state internationally, soccer does not, it has these tournies that count for pride and passion in the clubs and country and despite the economic downturn is thriving as a sport collectively, even if some teams are not. ... that is the way of the furture... we need to let go of the past I say. |
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Post by arh21980 on Mar 20, 2009 12:05:34 GMT 10
And so it begins Feleti Mateo has pledged his allegiance to NSW doing so making himself availble to Australia  |
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Post by Druzik on Mar 21, 2009 0:16:43 GMT 10
Hence this is my argument about getting rod of SoO or devaluing it. The WC for all its 'success' I fear will be wasted as we are serverley missing bthe boat with internationals now. The 4N and the euro and pacific cups are doing sweet FA to promote the international scene.
There is no incentive at the moment for players to stick with the other nations, and ther definitively is no incentive for emerging nations to aspire to greatness. There is still this glass ceiling and no one is willing to smash it. Here are my predictions for the next 2 4N.
2009 - Australia, England, France, New Zealand
2010 - Australia, England, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea
2011 - Australia, England, New Zealand, France
2012 you have yours which will also fuck any other country wanting players for internationals.
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Post by Kiwi fan on Mar 21, 2009 15:26:21 GMT 10
Hence this is my argument about getting rod of SoO or devaluing it. The WC for all its 'success' I fear will be wasted as we are serverley missing bthe boat with internationals now. The 4N and the euro and pacific cups are doing sweet FA to promote the international scene. There is no incentive at the moment for players to stick with the other nations, and ther definitively is no incentive for emerging nations to aspire to greatness. There is still this glass ceiling and no one is willing to smash it. Here are my predictions for the next 2 4N. 2009 - Australia, England, France, New Zealand 2010 - Australia, England, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea 2011 - Australia, England, New Zealand, France 2012 you have yours which will also fuck any other country wanting players for internationals. I don't see your objection to tours. I think tours are the best way to get the best teams playing the lesser teams. There's no point chucking NZ and Australia in tournaments with Fiji and Tonga. Those competitions will be boring, one sided and poorly watched. Tour games provide good reasons for countries to play other team developing teams in one off situations. Tours also give us a break from the 4 N which is needed. |
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Post by Druzik on Mar 21, 2009 17:59:36 GMT 10
I don't see your objection to tours. I think tours are the best way to get the best teams playing the lesser teams. There's no point chucking NZ and Australia in tournaments with Fiji and Tonga. Those competitions will be boring, one sided and poorly watched. Because tours do nothing to serve the overall international scene. Players have stated that they want to play the best teams i.e. Australia and New zealan England, thus they will choose to play for those countries first over teams like tonga or wales or what ever. Danny Brough has said this. If you have a tournament where players know that they will have an opportunity to consistently play the top teams they will start to choose the other nations. You will get players of Jaryd Haynes caliber choosing Fiji or toinga or samoa more often, these teams become stronger and compete better with the bigger nations. Thus you will start to get better games, and as it is they are not boring... you cant say that Australia v Fiji semi was boring, it was a lop sided score but some fantatsic rugby league was played and Fiji gave it its all. Once nations start to do well consistently year in year out the fans and tv audiences will pick up... it also comes to the promotion fo the sport by the RLIF. example. Fuifui Moimoi... in 2007 when he should have been playing for Tonga in their matches, since he did that the year before, he chose to want to play for NZ... he went to court FFs to do this... why because hed rather play for NZ than Tonga because NZ were plaing Engalnd and France. Tour games provide good reasons for countries to play other team developing teams in one off situations. Tours also give us a break from the 4 N which is needed. Again what is the point of one off games. Where Wales should have their best team against Australia... they wont as many of thie players would have chosen England... and will be in the england camp. Tours these days do absolutely nothing for the smaller nations, they are dinosours that need to lie down and die... I am sorry, I have fond memories of tours myself, but you have look to the future... the sports that have atruly world wide following DONT have tours (soccer), the games that are stiffled between a few nations (us and RU) do have tours.... we want to break out of this, kill tours. If you have tournamsnts, the 4 Nations will be broken up every 4 years, have 2 years of qualification and regional tournaments, then a 6/4 nations and then a WC... its all we need, its what the successful sports have... not complicated and mickey mouse tournaments that no one knows whats happeneing. Woudlnt it sound nice after 4 years that NZ or England are WC champions, Pacific/European champions and 6N champions? |
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Post by Kiwi fan on Mar 22, 2009 7:24:29 GMT 10
I really don't see the point in the regional tournaments. The games will be poorly attended and no one in NZ or Australia will care at all. The games will be lopsided and only two teams could win it. In the European tournament England will win with their eyes closed. A good tournament to me needs to be competitive with every team having a chance to win. I don't see how you can compare rugby league to soccer, they have 50 competitive and top class teams we have 3.
In rugby I think the 3 nations are better then the 6 Nations. The 3 Nations has probably the 3 best teams in the world and is always very even. The 6 Nations always has Scotland and Italy at the bottom and only two of the 6 teams generally fight it out for first.
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Post by Druzik on Mar 22, 2009 10:18:15 GMT 10
I really don't see the point in the regional tournaments. The games will be poorly attended and no one in NZ or Australia will care at all. The games will be lopsided and only two teams could win it. In the European tournament England will win with their eyes closed. A good tournament to me needs to be competitive with every team having a chance to win. I don't see how you can compare rugby league to soccer, they have 50 competitive and top class teams we have 3. In rugby I think the 3 nations are better then the 6 Nations. The 3 Nations has probably the 3 best teams in the world and is always very even. The 6 Nations always has Scotland and Italy at the bottom and only two of the 6 teams generally fight it out for first. Oh FFS KF... we may as well just get rid of fiji, Tonga, samoa, Germany and all other non top 4 nations out there then. Whats the point of having them... while we are a it piss the world cup off... go back to the pre 54 way of determining world champion hey. Effectively what you are asking for is a glorifies Club comp where the top 3 teams get stacked with what ever imports... because lets face it NZ has many islanders that could play for the island teams and so does Oz. Nations are screaming for the chance to compete agaisnt the top nations on a regular basis... why are we so scared of lob sided scores anyway... it seems to be a Rugby league thing where no other sport has issues with it. Its a very flac capper attitude you display... lets keep the sport for us and us only, it should not be spread anywhere outside East coast australia, Auckland or nort england. Regional tournaments, if done right can bring in the crowds, can produce good close scores... wales France and england in past european championships have alsways been competitive so why not now? Whats to say that with more regular games Fiji PNG or tonga wont attract better players to stick with them, improving their chances to beas Australia anyway? Regional tournaments are a path way to help develop teams and to give them a sense of inclusiveness into the rugby league community. In the end, by only having '3 competitive' teams players will always only go for them, and not any other national team they should be going for, thus the England/GB, Australian and NZ shirts are devalues as they basically become club rep teams, no better than a ESL vs NRL game. Soccer also had to start out with nothing once, you think they became all competitive over night, no, they had regional tournament where teams developed and got better... had regular games against quality opposition and finally were able to step up and qualify for WCs... thsi is only the natural way of doing things. Why are we so scared of doing this, why are Australia, NZ and England so scared of losing their dominance in the sport? I look forward to the day when I can see SthAf, or Germany or Japan lift that WC trophy. |
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Post by Kiwi fan on Mar 22, 2009 12:39:29 GMT 10
I'm certainly not saying we should give up on those countries. We definately need to see them having more games against the top sides.
Yes, NZ has a fair amount of island players but those islanders are now part of our culture. NZ lets a lot of immigrants in from the Islands and some of them (I don't meant to be offensive) come here and are a burden on the average tax payer. I would feel a bit annoyed if lots of them turned their backs on the country which has done so much for them and their family's. They probably feel a good deal of gratification for what NZ has done for them. A lot of them have come to NZ at a young age and have been developed by the Warriors and may not have been anywhere near as good if they had stayed in their native land. The NZRL wouldn't be happy if players were developed here and then scarpered to the Islands.
That's simply not true! I'm a big supporter of Toulouse and Perth for 2012. I want to see Edinburgh in the Championship and Adelaide in the NRL down the track. I would love it if NZRL got their acts together and rugby league was played outside the west coast, central Waikato and South Auckland.
I do want rugby league to develop but I don't think that it should do that and forget about the things that are special to the game right now. Even if getting rid of tours and SoO does help the game internationally it would be by such a small amount that it would hardly be worth it. I love the game for what it is now and I want other people to see that as well. I don't want to see the game change so much that when it is an international force it is hardly recognizable to me.
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Post by Druzik on Mar 22, 2009 20:44:57 GMT 10
I'm certainly not saying we should give up on those countries. We definately need to see them having more games against the top sides. But as it stands most of them wont get more games Yes, NZ has a fair amount of island players but those islanders are now part of our culture. NZ lets a lot of immigrants in from the Islands and some of them (I don't meant to be offensive) come here and are a burden on the average tax payer. I would feel a bit annoyed if lots of them turned their backs on the country which has done so much for them and their family's. They probably feel a good deal of gratification for what NZ has done for them. A lot of them have come to NZ at a young age and have been developed by the Warriors and may not have been anywhere near as good if they had stayed in their native land. The NZRL wouldn't be happy if players were developed here and then scarpered to the Islands. Look I have no issue if they choose NZ... as long as they stick with NZ... hoevere they need to have an equal opportunity to represent their other nations... and at the moment they dont. They all want to play for NZ or Austrlai as they are the only countries that get decent games... and how do we know then other deserving Kiwis/maoris or Aussies arent getting left out? That's simply not true! I'm a big supporter of Toulouse and Perth for 2012. I want to see Edinburgh in the Championship and Adelaide in the NRL down the track. I would love it if NZRL got their acts together and rugby league was played outside the west coast, central Waikato and South Auckland. Fair enough... sorrry for the comment... I have been fighting out with others elsewhere I was worked up. I do want rugby league to develop but I don't think that it should do that and forget about the things that are special to the game right now. Even if getting rid of tours and SoO does help the game internationally it would be by such a small amount that it would hardly be worth it. I love the game for what it is now and I want other people to see that as well. I don't want to see the game change so much that when it is an international force it is hardly recognizable to me. But special things right now arent always the things you need for the future, its what we need to look at... SoO in its current form needs to be changes... it needs to be used as a tool to expand the international game, at the moment it doesnt, the hype that it gets kills anything else off. Tours just dont make any sense anymore, not when you have such large developments in other countries now. These are the one thing that is holding Union back as well... they are two up their arses to see otherwise, but league we have the opportunity now to really break out and take the advantage... I hope the opportunity isnt lost, but the way things are looking it will be. |
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Post by Kiwi fan on Mar 23, 2009 14:08:43 GMT 10
My final comment on the issues is this:
I haven't been brought up as a rugby league fan. Before 2005 I had hardly ever watched a rugby league game before. For me it used to all be about rugby union and, to a lesser extent, football. Then I started to watch this SoO thing and thought it looked pretty cool. Later that year I watched the Kiwis win the Tri Nations and that looked pretty cool as well. From then on my favourite sport was rugby league.
This year a lot of other sports whom I have grown to love are having their special events. Cricket has its ashes which is probably my favourite sporting event as well as the RLWC. Rugby Union has the lions tour which I think is a better event then the RUWC. Tennis has a great rivalry, golf has Woods coming back and Cycling has a lot of good riders coming back to the tour of France.
What I'm trying to say is that I watch a lot of different sports for a lot of different reasons. I know plenty of people who pretty much only watch SoO and don't watch any other league. For me, test matches against Australia and England every year as well as SoO are the reasons I started watching RL. I do care about the NRL but not as much as SoO or a good tour match.
If you get rid of tours and SoO I'm going to be nowhere near as interested in RL. The only special events for me will be the RLWC and the 4 Nations which under your plan won't come around that often. If you get rid of those things rugby union, cricket and soccer are going to snap me up as a fan. If getting rid of those things work and in thirty years rugby league is played competitively between 20 nations then my love for RL will come back. But if you get rid of those things and it doesn't help anything at all I'll never love RL again.
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Post by Druzik on Mar 23, 2009 17:18:45 GMT 10
My final comment on the issues is this: Why last... its stimulated debate which is good... I like debating I haven't been brought up as a rugby league fan. Before 2005 I had hardly ever watched a rugby league game before. For me it used to all be about rugby union and, to a lesser extent, football. Then I started to watch this SoO thing and thought it looked pretty cool. Later that year I watched the Kiwis win the Tri Nations and that looked pretty cool as well. From then on my favourite sport was rugby league. For their time these tournaments did their job and with the lack of other international teams and money the Tri nations was necessary in that form to keep the international game alive. Yes but in cricket tours have now become part of an over all two year competition, the sport has evolved itself now to giuve more incentive to teams... tours were loosing their lustre, so the formal rankings came in and the world championship at the end of two years has been brought in to stimulate the sport. Tennis as well now has changed itself the structure of tournaments to make them worth a bit more than just wimbledon etc... you plaz for that season ending Masters title now. But you cant really comapre teams sports with individual sports I dont think. Look i watch heaps of other sports as well, and the most successful ones around the world have the structure that I am advocating. What I'm trying to say is that I watch a lot of different sports for a lot of different reasons. I know plenty of people who pretty much only watch SoO and don't watch any other league. For me, test matches against Australia and England every year as well as SoO are the reasons I started watching RL. I do care about the NRL but not as much as SoO or a good tour match. But this is precisely what I am advocating NRL < SoO < Internationals. Its just that at the moment its not like that its the precise oppoiste Internationals < NRL < SoO and it should not eb like that. SoO should be a tool used for stimulating the international game and its not, its stiffling it by sucking away any potential players from other countries. Its killing any sort of potential for a team like Tonga or PNG to rise up through the ranks. The tours do the same... if all you have a tours then that is all players will want to play giving no other country a chance to play. If you get rid of tours and SoO I'm going to be nowhere near as interested in RL. The only special events for me will be the RLWC and the 4 Nations which under your plan won't come around that often. But they are special... that is the point, each tournament will come round every 4 years and should be built up to be the big thing for that year, you still will end up basically having the major teams playing ech other 3/4 years anyway, with the regional finals, 6N and then a WC. With the games hosted in one place the effectively would become like tours anyway so I dont see the probelm for you. Its a noral 4 year cycle, that is all I am pushing for... look what we have coming up, a euro nations this year that effectively amounts to nothing, a poorley planned Pacific nations cup which by all acounts is taking a back seat to the mediteranean cup which is a pure money making csheme for 4 nations that are stacked with aussies, next year another Euro nations cup that France will most probably win easily for the 2011 4 Nations but no pacific cup and after that no one really knows whats happening... how can a sport survive like this. Union, you know that every year there is the Tri-Nations, 6N, their mickey tours... and what is the biggest complaint coming from fans... that they are bored with it, that its the same stuff over again and that its nothing to get excited about. The All blacks Grand Slam tour made bugger all spalsh in Europe because everyone knew oh its just the all blacks coming over and wiining for the 23rd time in 3 years or what ever... The RUWC comes round every 4 years and IS special because its different and provides something different... that what I want for league... dont you wnat that? If you get rid of those things rugby union, cricket and soccer are going to snap me up as a fan. If getting rid of those things work and in thirty years rugby league is played competitively between 20 nations then my love for RL will come back. But if you get rid of those things and it doesn't help anything at all I'll never love RL again. That is a real shame that you have that attitude... you dont wnat to be there as a fan to see the sport grow and develop, be part of that as a fan to help the sport grow? No one is saying you shouldnt enjoy the other sports, but league for so many years has taken a back burner to everyone else, due to constantly being kicked and also continually shootiung itself in the foot, we fianlly have a great chance to change that and break out of that, and I fear we will miss that chance. Look... you will have your 4Nations and tours... I know the RLIF won't change anything. |
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