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Russia
Sept 9, 2008 21:10:46 GMT 10
Post by Marv on Sept 9, 2008 21:10:46 GMT 10
Just read the article in September's RLW, a good read. Nice to hear it isn't all doom and gloom in Russia, actually the article was quite positive and opened my eyes on a few things. I found the comment where Khlebanov said Lokomotiv's standard was aroun that of low National League 1 teams quite interesting. At first I though no chance but in hindsight the result against the crusaders makes this statement look pretty much on the mark. It was Lokomotiv's off-season, they were 1500 miles away from home and I'm sure Celtic have put over 50 on in a few NL1 games this year. I hope Lokomoitv make a bid for Super League in 2012 if that is possible. I knwo they are unlikely for 2012 but the fact that they are making a bid might spur on something big and they could very well be ready for Sl in 2015 or 2018. Theres no way in the world Loko are at NL1 standard they would be struggling at the bottom of NL2, look at the national teams results too |
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jim
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Russia
Sept 10, 2008 11:15:32 GMT 10
Post by jim on Sept 10, 2008 11:15:32 GMT 10
Theres no way in the world Loko are at NL1 standard they would be struggling at the bottom of NL2, look at the national teams results too Well I've never seen them play and don't know much about them, I'm just making my assesment on the last time they played a NL1 team. Unless it was a very understrength Celtic side I think the result kind of justifies the comment. Though it was 1 game, it would be interesting to see how they would go week-in week-out for 20+ weeks against NL1 opposition. I guess the only way we could know for sure is if they joined NL1 and I don't see that happening. |
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Russia
Sept 10, 2008 17:23:30 GMT 10
Post by Marv on Sept 10, 2008 17:23:30 GMT 10
Well I've never seen them play and don't know much about them, I'm just making my assesment on the last time they played a NL1 team. Unless it was a very understrength Celtic side I think the result kind of justifies the comment. I have never saw Loko v Celtic but I did see Swinton (NL2) put 60 on them the year before, and we can look at the national teams results over the last few years, the national side is mainly compromised of Loko players. Klebanov makes the excuse that its their pre-season but TBH jim the only games celtic played were the NR Cup group games so its not really a relevant comment for me. Though it was 1 game, it would be interesting to see how they would go week-in week-out for 20+ weeks against NL1 opposition. I guess the only way we could know for sure is if they joined NL1 and I don't see that happening. Your right it would be interesting to see, and also right in that iits very unlikley to happen, not sure I would want a russian side in the SL or NL1 either way |
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jim
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Russia
Sept 10, 2008 19:28:50 GMT 10
Post by jim on Sept 10, 2008 19:28:50 GMT 10
Your right it would be interesting to see, and also right in that iits very unlikley to happen, not sure I would want a russian side in the SL or NL1 either way Yeh NL1 is not an option simply because of the $. Sl may be an option and I wouldn't mind seeing Loko get pro-active and making bids in 2012 or 2015. I wouldn't mind seeing a Russian team in SL, from that article I mentioned about 200 fans which is decent considering the conditions, they could well get better crowds than some NL clubs when wheather permits. What I would like to see is a European Club Challenge. A Small knockout comp featuring the winner of NL 2, RLC, Elite 1, Elite 2, Serbian Comp, Russian Comp, Spanish Comp (Providing it starts up next year) and another. Not sure on the 8th team, maybe an Italian, German or Czech club or something. Just a small 3 week comp, the winner could get a game against NL1 winner or something. |
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Russia
Sept 10, 2008 19:59:20 GMT 10
Post by Druzik on Sept 10, 2008 19:59:20 GMT 10
I am still waiting for my issue to come, so haven't read the article but...
Jim do not get too way ahead of yourself... Spain will not be starting. Catalan alone is only an observer and will cost a cats game... Catalonia is not spain they will not want to be spin that is the main issue.
I don't want to see Russia in Super league or NL. What I want is to have a strong French and Russian dometsic comp that will end up coming upto and rivaling super league in terms of money players and exposure, maybe even a fourth league somehwre eventually. If RL is to really survive then that is what needs to happen.
There are rumours that for CC there will be a small competition to decide the clubs to go in from the east, these will be based on the russian, Ukranians and Serbian... spider may be able to she more light on that.
Also from what you are saying about klebanov is very contradictory to what I have heard from many others. Klebanov is almost singlehandedly keeping RL in Russia alive. The reason many of the national teasm and that have Loko players is that no one else wnats or gives a rats... many of the teams just view things as a walk in the park and dont want to work at it. I am told that Klebanov has passion for the game and put vast amounts of his time and money, and has been frustrated by others comming in looking for a quick buck, and then pulling out because they have missed the point of RL and its passion and what it requires... its not soccer.
I know I have been critical of Klebanov in the bast, but I have been able to speak to people that have direct contact with him and have told me about a whole different side of the story. Any further judgements I am going to reserve till after I read the article.
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Russia
Sept 10, 2008 21:31:45 GMT 10
Post by Marv on Sept 10, 2008 21:31:45 GMT 10
Jim do not get too way ahead of yourself. Jim, getting ahead of himself...............never  I have always liked the idea of a non-elite euro competition, but again its about £$ Lezignan v Lokomotiv Moscow or Dorocol v Widnes might seem like a dream to us but to most people including your average RL fan its a nothing comp. I don't want to see Russia in Super league or NL. What I want is to have a strong French and Russian dometsic comp that will end up coming upto and rivaling super league in terms of money players and exposure, maybe even a fourth league somehwreeventually. If RL is to really survive then that is what needs to happen. Well TBH druzik if this is true.... Klebanov is almost singlehandedly keeping RL in Russia alive. The reason many of the national teasm and that have Loko players is that no one else wnats or gives a rats... many of the teams just view things as a walk in the park and dont want to work at it. Then your never gonna see your dream of a russian SL, because with only one team able to compete then there will never be a meaningful comp, plus I belive the thrid/fourth Pro league is never gonna happen, not in our lifetime. I am told that Klebanov has passion for the game and put vast amounts of his time and money, and has been frustrated by others comming in looking for a quick buck, and then pulling out because they have missed the point of RL and its passion and what it requires... its not soccer. If he cared that much he would plough some of that money into people who he knew cared, the help is out there if Russia needs it, for the Russian league to move forward the running of the show should be handed to the RLIF/RLEF/RFL If he cared so much why is his sole focus seem to be Lokomotiv Moscow? I know I have been critical of Klebanov in the bast, but I have been able to speak to people that have direct contact with him and have told me about a whole different side of the story. I cant pass comment on that myself but the article comments on how its tough in Russia because of Geography and competition from other sports too There are rumours that for CC there will be a small competition to decide the clubs to go in from the east, these will be based on the russian, Ukranians and Serbian... spider may be able to she more light on that. again though this leads back to what jim says, the Celtic v Loko match was not in the full swing of the russian season, same for the scottish entrants and for example if Dorocol were entered into the comp the seasons are not running parralell enough to give the overseas clubs a chance to compete in the comp |
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jim
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Russia
Sept 10, 2008 22:07:24 GMT 10
Post by jim on Sept 10, 2008 22:07:24 GMT 10
Jim do not get too way ahead of yourself... Spain will not be starting. Catalan alone is only an observer and will cost a cats game... Catalonia is not spain they will not want to be spin that is the main issue. According to a thread on TRL Spain/Catalonia are confident of getting a club league up and running next year. Apparently it is likely that FCB will field a team in the league. I don't want to see Russia in Super league or NL. What I want is to have a strong French and Russian dometsic comp that will end up coming upto and rivaling super league in terms of money players and exposure, maybe even a fourth league somehwre eventually. If RL is to really survive then that is what needs to happen. I would love to see that too but I think if Russia is ever going to have a stron domestic league one of 2 things needs to happen. 1. A couple of other rival millionares fund clubs to create competition for Loko. Maybe a soccer club is an option like Zenit or something? or 2. Russia need to be given a boost through SL like France. I agree with you tottaly, in fact I am a biug fan of a French SL before too long with 6 pro clubs. There has to be a cut-off for French teams in SL, if Toulouse are given a place I expect more French teams will bid in years to come. I would not be suprised to see a Paris bid as early as 2012. Lyon are also well situated having a Elite club. There are rumours that for CC there will be a small competition to decide the clubs to go in from the east, these will be based on the russian, Ukranians and Serbian... spider may be able to she more light on that. Good, I hope something comes of it. Also from what you are saying about klebanov is very contradictory to what I have heard from many others. Klebanov is almost singlehandedly keeping RL in Russia alive. The reason many of the national teasm and that have Loko players is that no one else wnats or gives a rats... many of the teams just view things as a walk in the park and dont want to work at it. I am told that Klebanov has passion for the game and put vast amounts of his time and money, and has been frustrated by others comming in looking for a quick buck, and then pulling out because they have missed the point of RL and its passion and what it requires... its not soccer. I know I have been critical of Klebanov in the bast, but I have been able to speak to people that have direct contact with him and have told me about a whole different side of the story. Any further judgements I am going to reserve till after I read the article. I've no doubt he has passion for the game, I have to wonder though why stack his team with the best players then? I can't see anyway that will help the league at all. Maybe he needs to use his passion and $ in a more productive way for Russian RL. Hire a high quality coach for the National team, bring in high quality coaches not just into his own team but others aswell. He could try and set up a exchange program with a NL club so the best Russian players can be noticed in the UK also bringing high quality UK or French players into the Russian league. |
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Russia
Sept 10, 2008 22:48:07 GMT 10
Post by Druzik on Sept 10, 2008 22:48:07 GMT 10
That is just it, klebanov has been trying to entice others to come in and fund teams... but many have not understood the game and left when they wernt making money after 6 months.
Apparently there in a new guy that has real enthusiasm for the game in Strela and has $$$ and si something will start there. Though I have no further datils than that.
Jim, I sort a know someone that is sitting in Catalonia working with the RL there... and he says its not spain... they are avoiding being called sapin at all costs as it will kill the sport. Les cats have a profile in Barca and they are trying to build on that. As soon as it becomes spain it will be the death nell... there is a reason why that region is fighting a war to beocme seperate... they do not consider themselves spaniards.
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jim
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Russia
Sept 10, 2008 22:58:10 GMT 10
Post by jim on Sept 10, 2008 22:58:10 GMT 10
That is just it, klebanov has been trying to entice others to come in and fund teams... but many have not understood the game and left when they wernt making money after 6 months. Apparently there in a new guy that has real enthusiasm for the game in Strela and has $$$ and si something will start there. Though I have no further datils than that. Jim, I sort a know someone that is sitting in Catalonia working with the RL there... and he says its not spain... they are avoiding being called sapin at all costs as it will kill the sport. Les cats have a profile in Barca and they are trying to build on that. As soon as it becomes spain it will be the death nell... there is a reason why that region is fighting a war to beocme seperate... they do not consider themselves spaniards. I hope somethign comes of the Strela situation, maybe it already has? they beat Lokomotiv? By the spanish league I meant the league in and around Barcelona. I didn't know there were such issues with calling the area spain. |
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Russia
Sept 10, 2008 23:04:35 GMT 10
Post by Druzik on Sept 10, 2008 23:04:35 GMT 10
oh yeah... there is a reason why ETA is a terrorist group. They effectively are the Catalonian IRA. Why do you think there is such a massive rivalry between Madrid and Barca soccer fans... to the point of riots... they cant stand each other.
Well maybe something is starting to happen in Russia. Just got my copy and had a quick read... need to mull over it now.
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jim
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Russia
Sept 11, 2008 15:45:05 GMT 10
Post by jim on Sept 11, 2008 15:45:05 GMT 10
oh yeah... there is a reason why ETA is a terrorist group. They effectively are the Catalonian IRA. Why do you think there is such a massive rivalry between Madrid and Barca soccer fans... to the point of riots... they cant stand each other. Well maybe something is starting to happen in Russia. Just got my copy and had a quick read... need to mull over it now. Well if there is such an issue call it the catalan league or something like that. What happens when players from the Catalan region want to compete in Internationals? will they be allowed to compete in International competition under the name Catalonia? If they ever have aspirations of WC they'd have to play as Spain would they not? Hopefully Kazan have become a force, hard to see how they could have beaten Loko without some changes in coaching/players recently. With 2 competitive teams the Russian shoudl be able to grow nicely. |
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Russia
Sept 11, 2008 18:58:51 GMT 10
Post by Marv on Sept 11, 2008 18:58:51 GMT 10
According to a thread on TRL Spain/Catalonia are confident of getting a club league up and running next year. Apparently it is likely that FCB will field a team in the league. That would be interesting to see but as Druzik says Spain and Catalonia are two very different beasts I would love to see that too but I think if Russia is ever going to have a stron domestic league one of 2 things needs to happen. 1. A couple of other rival millionares fund clubs to create competition for Loko. Maybe a soccer club is an option like Zenit or something? or 2. Russia need to be given a boost through SL like France. My personal opinion is that wouls already have happened if it was going to, well it almost has what with the other guy pulling his funding I agree with you tottaly, in fact I am a biug fan of a French SL before too long with 6 pro clubs. There has to be a cut-off for French teams in SL, if Toulouse are given a place I expect more French teams will bid in years to come. I would not be suprised to see a Paris bid as early as 2012. Lyon are also well situated having a Elite club. Your away again jim, can we not just see how Toulouse go in NL1 first? we still only have 1 french SL club never mind 6 quality teams, also you have to consider how far the FFR13 want to go with this and how far the RFL want to go, they may set a cap on 2 or 3 french sides and knowing the FFR13 they wont really want to do anything at all I've no doubt he has passion for the game, I have to wonder though why stack his team with the best players then? I can't see anyway that will help the league at all. Maybe he needs to use his passion and $ in a more productive way for Russian RL. Hire a high quality coach for the National team, bring in high quality coaches not just into his own team but others aswell. He could try and set up a exchange program with a NL club so the best Russian players can be noticed in the UK also bringing high quality UK or French players into the Russian league. Couldnt agree with you more mate 100% on the money IMO |
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Russia
Sept 11, 2008 19:06:20 GMT 10
Post by Druzik on Sept 11, 2008 19:06:20 GMT 10
The thing with russia is that yes one team is stacked, but if it wasnt the other teams could not afford to keep them, they would most probably be lost to Union in Russia which still has a significant presence.
From what I know, Klebanov has been trying to get more interaction with the SL, NL, NRL and others... but manz are not willing to go there. Manz junior teams go but no senior teams. Plus the RFL in the past have been reluctant to part money into the RLIF to help these teams... it seems different now with Lewis.
I am sure if the money was there they would target players from OS to come over. Truth be told I would love to see some players of their own vices take the initaitive and maybe offer their services almost for free on a transfer basis to russian and Serbain clubs to help them out... but manz players are just as ignorant of IRL as some fans are.
Also Remember Klebanov was the one trying to get Tim Sheens to come coach russi for the WC. I think things are much more complicated than we see on the surface. I have sealised this now... another layer to add to understanding the great sport.
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Russia
Sept 11, 2008 19:15:15 GMT 10
Post by Marv on Sept 11, 2008 19:15:15 GMT 10
oh yeah... there is a reason why ETA is a terrorist group. They effectively are the Catalonian IRA. Why do you think there is such a massive rivalry between Madrid and Barca soccer fans... to the point of riots... they cant stand each other. Sorry to pull you up on this one Dan but ETA has nothing to do with Catalonia, ETA is the "Euskadi Ta Askatasuna" rougly translated as "homeland and Freedom for Basques" and they are a Basque sepratist group, the Basque territiory also covers northern spain and southern France like Catalonia but Basque territory occupies the western coast, Catalonia the Eastern coast The acronym your thinking of is the ERC (republican left of catalonia) but they claim to be a completly poilitical party, where, like you say, ETA are recognised by most of the E.U as a terrorist group Honestly mate the Basques make the Catalonians look Freindly to the spanish! Your right in what you say though they are basically the Basque IRA, they also use football as their vehicle the Basque Soccer club Atheletic Bilboa have a strict rule in place they ONLY sign Basque players other Basque clubs used to do this but dont now. Well maybe something is starting to happen in Russia. Just got my copy and had a quick read... need to mull over it now. Its a decent artilcle, I wish the mag had more like it, maybe an Irish or Serb game covered surely wouldnt be that hard? |
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Russia
Sept 11, 2008 19:19:20 GMT 10
Post by Marv on Sept 11, 2008 19:19:20 GMT 10
The thing with russia is that yes one team is stacked, but if it wasnt the other teams could not afford to keep them, they would most probably be lost to Union in Russia which still has a significant presence. Good point, but do they sit with one decent club thats never going to get better with a very slim chance of SL or do they give up, there not going anywhere..... I am sure if the money was there they would target players from OS to come over. Truth be told I would love to see some players of their own vices take the initaitive and maybe offer their services almost for free on a transfer basis to russian and Serbain clubs to help them out... but manz players are just as ignorant of IRL as some fans are. well id ont see why players should have to do that, you wouldnt offer your scientific services for free to a third world country, just to help them out. The players have a career to make, maybe ex-players yeah but evwn then these guys need to work too Also Remember Klebanov was the one trying to get Tim Sheens to come coach russi for the WC. I think things are much more complicated than we see on the surface. I have sealised this now... another layer to add to understanding the great sport. this is a good point, nothing is ever straight forward in russia it seems |
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