|
|
Post by Marv on Aug 18, 2008 22:09:06 GMT 10
TBH I think those scores are respectable with semi-pro and pro players in the opposition. I know they weren't full strength but they would have been quality opposition. Well when you consider that all three nations roughly started playing RL at the same time (2000 WC)and the fact the Russians are supposed to be Semi-pro themselves I think its piss poor. Question is how would BARLA go against those teams? I'm not so sure they would go too much better. Dunno mate I think its difficult to say I would think they would get beaten by Ireland or Lebs full side but would beat the Leb Espiors or Irish Wolfhounds. Personally I think BARLA would fare better than Russia, but its impossible to say That's what I think the best option is for RRL, get Tim Sheens back in charge of the national team and let him work his magic. I'm not saying he would make them world beaters but he would definatley raise the bar. Maybe when he retires from NRL coaching because knowing the Tigers they wouldn;t want him coaching Russia. Just on that subject, how did the Sheens and Russia relationship start? I'm guessing the Tigers had something to do with him stopping. I think it was something to do with tigers Druzik knows for sure IMO ANY outside coaching would improve these players massively they are physically big units and I have never seen a winger like the Vereya No2, He was amazingly fast, and the 6 and 13 looked head and shoulders above even some of the english players so the core skills are there. |
|
jim
Marquee Player
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by jim on Aug 18, 2008 22:27:28 GMT 10
Well when you consider that all three nations roughly started playing RL at the same time (2000 WC) I think its piss poor. hmm yeh didn't think of that. On another note though Ireland and Lebanon have always had some players in NRL and SL with heritage that they can call upon, Russia don't really. One could argue that Russia are ahead because they all rely on natives and would probably be atleast even probably above Wolfhounds and Espoir. Well I guess we'll see if they beat Espoir this year. Dunno mate I think its difficult to say I would think they would get beaten by Ireland or Lebs full side but would beat the Leb Espiors or Irish Wolfhounds. Personally I think BARLA would fare better than Russia, but its impossible to say Yeh I suppose unless they play each other we won't really know. If my idea of what should happen with these euro comps happens we may see Russia taking on Wales. I'm talking of each champion of the euro comps getting a promotion game against the lowest nation on the tier above. This would mean Russia, Lebanon or Serbia playing Wales. Latvia playing Czechs etc. On Lewis' 10 year plan 2009 has a "European Championships" so this could well involve the winner of the euro-med IMO, England and France will be playing 4 nations so I would Guess it would be Wales, ireland, Scotland and Euro-Med winner. If it was just going to be the first 3 it may aswell be "celtic cup" or something like that, it would be great for the winner of Euro-Med if they could get into such a tournament. I think it was something to do with tigers Druzik knows for sure IMO ANY outside coaching would improve these players massively they are physically big units and I have never seen a winger like the Vereya No2, He was amazingly fast, and the 6 and 13 looked head and shoulders above even some of the english players so the core skills are there. Has Sheens got Russian heritage or something? That is the problem, some of those players would have massive potential and just need some good coaching to take them to the next level. |
|
|
|
Post by Marv on Aug 18, 2008 23:19:22 GMT 10
hmm yeh didn't think of that. On another note though Ireland and Lebanon have always had some players in NRL and SL with heritage that they can call upon, Russia don't really. One could argue that Russia are ahead because they all rely on natives and would probably be atleast even probably above Wolfhounds and Espoir. Well I guess we'll see if they beat Espoir this year. Well Russias 2000 squad had a lot of Australians in it too and their are still palyers like Dean Rysko at wests who qualify. I agree we will see for sure how good the Russians are when they play Serbia and Lebanon this year. Yeh I suppose unless they play each other we won't really know. If my idea of what should happen with these euro comps happens we may see Russia taking on Wales. I'm talking of each champion of the euro comps getting a promotion game against the lowest nation on the tier above. This would mean Russia, Lebanon or Serbia playing Wales. Latvia playing Czechs etc. Its a great idea I think, but in all honesty all i want is a push after the WC. A push that didnt materialise after 2000 On Lewis' 10 year plan 2009 has a "European Championships" so this could well involve the winner of the euro-med IMO, England and France will be playing 4 nations so I would Guess it would be Wales, ireland, Scotland and Euro-Med winner. If it was just going to be the first 3 it may aswell be "celtic cup" or something like that, it would be great for the winner of Euro-Med if they could get into such a tournament. They would long term but they would get severely hammered for a few years at first. Has Sheens got Russian heritage or something? Dont think so mate but not 100% sure. |
|
jim
Marquee Player
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by jim on Aug 19, 2008 17:59:55 GMT 10
Well Russias 2000 squad had a lot of Australians in it too and their are still palyers like Dean Rysko at wests who qualify. Yeh, they are locals now aren't they? Although I imagine if they were given bigger games like a tournament against Wales, Ireland and Scotland like I suggested earlier I imagine they would call on some players that are eligable playing overseas. I agree we will see for sure how good the Russians are when they play Serbia and Lebanon this year. Yep, not long to go now. I'm still tipping Russia but Espoir will be hard to beat as will Serbia. Its a great idea I think, but in all honesty all i want is a push after the WC. A push that didnt materialise after 2000 As do I, I really hope countries like Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, Scotland and Ireland can maintain the majority of their players. Time will tell but the RFIL and RLEF NEED to go ahead with France in the 4 nations and keep them there instead of putting a SH team in insdtead in 2009, if a SH team is going to come in then make it 5 nations. The 6 nations in america needs to go ahead with all teams fielding they're strongest squads, not Tonga residents. Also the winner of this tournament needs to be given a reward, maybe a spot in a 5 nations 2010 or maybe just a game against higher opposition like NZ and/or Australia. The Euro comps need to continue with a top tier this time. There are so many things that could be done, I for one think the PMXIII team that plays PNG should move onto South Africa and give PNG a game against NZ on origin week or something like that. They would long term but they would get severely hammered for a few years at first. I agree Scotland, Ireland and Wales would flog Russia and Serbia to start with, maybe not Lebanon seeing as they would use their Australia based players. It would be like putting Italy into the 6 nations in Rugby, a long term thing. |
|
|
|
Post by Marv on Aug 20, 2008 17:17:23 GMT 10
Yeh, they are locals now aren't they? Although I imagine if they were given bigger games like a tournament against Wales, Ireland and Scotland like I suggested earlier I imagine they would call on some players that are eligable playing overseas. Its all very well them being locals but if they are just going to get thumped it doenst matter who they pick, even in 2000 they were hopelessly embarresed. Fact is they need some help form outside. Yep, not long to go now. I'm still tipping Russia but Espoir will be hard to beat as will Serbia. I think its gonna be a real tight comp mate, I really do. As do I, I really hope countries like Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, Scotland and Ireland can maintain the majority of their players. Time will tell but the RFIL and RLEF NEED to go ahead with France in the 4 nations and keep them there instead of putting a SH team in insdtead in 2009, if a SH team is going to come in then make it 5 nations. I would rather see a 4 nations first for a few years the last thing we need is 2 mini comps in what is supposed to be the hardest RL comp going, regular cricket scores for 2 nations wont help the profile of the comp. The 6 nations in america needs to go ahead with all teams fielding they're strongest squads, not Tonga residents. Also the winner of this tournament needs to be given a reward, maybe a spot in a 5 nations 2010 or maybe just a game against higher opposition like NZ and/or Australia. The Euro comps need to continue with a top tier this time. What 6 nations jim? There are so many things that could be done, I for one think the PMXIII team that plays PNG should move onto South Africa and give PNG a game against NZ on origin week or something like that. SA would get murdered by a PMXIII, lets just see how they go in the UK this winter first. I personally think PNG v NZ would be great, such an intense physical battle. |
|
jim
Marquee Player
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by jim on Aug 20, 2008 17:52:30 GMT 10
Its all very well them being locals but if they are just going to get thumped it doenst matter who they pick, even in 2000 they were hopelessly embarresed. Fact is they need some help form outside. All the more reason to get high quality coaches involved. Soon enough we will see some Russian players filtering into Australia, NZ, England and France. I think its gonna be a real tight comp mate, I really do. I Agree I would rather see a 4 nations first for a few years the last thing we need is 2 mini comps in what is supposed to be the hardest RL comp going, regular cricket scores for 2 nations wont help the profile of the comp. Yeh I agree, France need to be kept there not in in 2009 out in 2010. France would most likely get flogged quite alot and it might take them 3 years to win a game but it is for the long term good. Hopefully RLIF and/or FFR don't get put off if France cop a hammering in the WC or the first year of 4 nations. After 3 years they should win the ocassional game and have a full professional squad when Toulouse get in SL. hereSA would get murdered by a PMXIII, lets just see how they go in the UK this winter first. Yes they probably would, maybe to start we could send a Jnr Kangaroos and once the standard comes up a bit send PMXIII over there. It would help SA develop against strong opposition and save them the $$$ of touring. PNG's would have gained alot from those games. I personally think PNG v NZ would be great, such an intense physical battle. I think it's time we gave PNG a yearly test against NZ and/or Australia. The PMXIII games would have helped them out alot and I feel 2009 is the time to give them even more. Maybe a game against the loser of the mid year Test. |
|
|
|
Post by Marv on Aug 20, 2008 18:32:21 GMT 10
All the more reason to get high quality coaches involved. Soon enough we will see some Russian players filtering into Australia, NZ, England and France. I think we are a long way off seeing Russians playing NRL/SL Yeh I agree, France need to be kept there not in in 2009 out in 2010. France would most likely get flogged quite alot and it might take them 3 years to win a game but it is for the long term good. Hopefully RLIF and/or FFR don't get put off if France cop a hammering in the WC or the first year of 4 nations. After 3 years they should win the ocassional game and have a full professional squad when Toulouse get in SL. Thats why I think it should be left at 4 nations, I dont think PNG have the Infrastructure ATM and there would be saftey issues taking Tri nations games to PNG and I feel the Islanders shouldnt be rewarded by the tri nations yet because they arent producing the players like France or PNG Yes they probably would, maybe to start we could send a Jnr Kangaroos and once the standard comes up a bit send PMXIII over there. It would help SA develop against strong opposition and save them the $$$ of touring. I think if this avenue was open to SARL then they might have took it maybe Rhino knows more? |
|
jim
Marquee Player
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by jim on Aug 20, 2008 20:04:34 GMT 10
I think we are a long way off seeing Russians playing NRL/SL As do I, what I mean was the sooner there is some decent coaching and managment infastructure in RRL then the sooner we will see Russian improts filtering overseas or perhaps even a Russian team in SL. Thats why I think it should be left at 4 nations, I dont think PNG have the Infrastructure ATM and there would be saftey issues taking Tri nations games to PNG and I feel the Islanders shouldnt be rewarded by the tri nations yet because they arent producing the players like France or PNG I agree for the time being 4 nations is fine. Maybe in 5 years or so we could look at 5 or 6 nations. I'm a fan of 6 nations with every team having to qualify through regional championships, but that is a while off yet. France need to be put in and persisted with and they will improve. I just hope the RLIF don;t get scared and take them out if they a bad WC this year or bad first 4 nations tournament next year. |
|
|
|
Post by Marv on Aug 21, 2008 19:12:24 GMT 10
As do I, what I mean was the sooner there is some decent coaching and managment infastructure in RRL then the sooner we will see Russian improts filtering overseas or perhaps even a Russian team in SL. Yeah spot on jim, I wonder what matey at Loko is thinking sometimes, especially when their on the plane home after a Challenge Cup tonking. He must see that to grow the RRL needs help. France need to be put in and persisted with and they will improve. I just hope the RLIF don;t get scared and take them out if they a bad WC this year or bad first 4 nations tournament next year. Which they could so, quite easily, the Tri nations is a profitable exersice, I can understand why they wouldnt want to make it less competetive |
|
jim
Marquee Player
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by jim on Aug 21, 2008 20:43:41 GMT 10
Yeah spot on jim, I wonder what matey at Loko is thinking sometimes, especially when their on the plane home after a Challenge Cup tonking. He must see that to grow the RRL needs help. Especially bad after a tonking from an ametuer team  . Although the did lose out to Celtic this year and Celtic went OK against Leeds. Vereya on the other hand... Which they could so, quite easily, the Tri nations is a profitable exersice, I can understand why they wouldnt want to make it less competetive I think they should keep France there no matter what results in the first few years. Eventually they will compete and start to beat team. In 10 years they may even be champions. I don;t really care if all NZ, England and Australia put 60 on them in each game this is for the long term. Besides I didn't read too much into the mid-year result, France did well for the first half and a bit more fitness and they could have kept England to alot less, also I said it before and will say it again when you have 4 of your first choice forwards and first choice half back missing it is always going to be hard. Canberra beat Penrith 74-12 a few weeks ago but the next time they meet I bet it won't be anything like that scoreline. I still think France will copmpete in this WC and next year, on a good day they may even knock off one of the big 3 if they're not on their game. |
|
|
|
Post by Druzik on Aug 22, 2008 19:24:44 GMT 10
Spud! I am booked into the same hotel as you (Blakemore) so no problems there with meeting, I get in Thursday night (8:30 pm) and will be till early sunday morning (6:00 am). This will be awesome!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Marv on Aug 22, 2008 22:48:00 GMT 10
Especially bad after a tonking from an ametuer team . Although the did lose out to Celtic this year and Celtic went OK against Leeds. Vereya on the other hand... Yeah but even the last 3 years they have never been home without not conceding 60+ usually by NL2 sides I think they should keep France there no matter what results in the first few years. I agree, but it aint up to us, christ if we were to let druzik loose USA would be playing the Kiwis  In 10 years they may even be champions. I don;t really care if all NZ, England and Australia put 60 on them in each game this is for the long term. But long term what if France dont win any games for say 3-4-5 years which is more than possible, what then? Besides I didn't read too much into the mid-year result, France did well for the first half and a bit more fitness and they could have kept England to alot less, also I said it before and will say it again when you have 4 of your first choice forwards and first choice half back missing it is always going to be hard. Im not reading too much into the mid season test, but I am looking at the last 10-15 meetings between England and France.... www.ffr13.com/1-13903-Palmares.phpbut I agree with you they do need better fitness but this will be the ultimate downfall of all the semi-pro teams and the big island boys Canberra beat Penrith 74-12 a few weeks ago but the next time they meet I bet it won't be anything like that scoreline. The NRL is a very different beast to the International game jim I still think France will copmpete in this WC and next year, on a good day they may even knock off one of the big 3 if they're not on their game. I think they will compete, keeping the big fellas under 30 is competing for me where France and PNG is concerend |
|
jim
Marquee Player
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by jim on Aug 22, 2008 23:19:20 GMT 10
Yeah but even the last 3 years they have never been home without not conceding 60+ usually by NL2 sides Yeh, come to think of it 52-10 or whatever it was isn't too bad a result against crusaders, crusaders would have beaten other NL1 teams by that margin this year. Whether it was the full Crusaders side I'm not sure. I agree, but it aint up to us, christ if we were to let druzik loose USA would be playing the Kiwis Yes I know, I just hope RLIF don't miss a valuable opurtunity to put France into the tournament. But long term what if France dont win any games for say 3-4-5 years which is more than possible, what then? As long as they aren't getting killed 60-0 every game keep them there. Eventually they will win games, when more French players make their way into SL and Toulose get a license the French team should be a force to be reckoned with. Besides I think they could very well notch up a win in 2009 or 2010. I try not to use other sports as examples but Italy and Scotland barely win any games in Union 6 nations but they will always be there. Im not reading too much into the mid season test, but I am looking at the last 10-15 meetings between England and France.... www.ffr13.com/1-13903-Palmares.phpbut I agree with you they do need better fitness but this will be the ultimate downfall of all the semi-pro teams and the big island boys Yes but France will get better and they could well have put in their best performance in 15 years if they had a full side available. Well potenitally they could have a team full of full time players considering 20 players come from Catalans I imagine all those would do full time training with the top squad. Also the 4 that are training with the Broncos should have very good fitness for the cup. The NRL is a very different beast to the International game jim  I know, bad example probably. I think they will compete, keeping the big fellas under 30 is competing for me where France and PNG is concerend I think France and PNG very well could get within 20 points of the big teams, I'm not even discounting an upset although it would be hard for France seeing as they will have to play a team in form if they reach the semis. PNG could well spring an upset but I wouldn't bet my money on it, alot of Australians are saying that PNG will beat England in Townsville and the final will be Australia and NZ. |
|
|
|
Post by Marv on Aug 23, 2008 21:27:26 GMT 10
Yeh, come to think of it 52-10 or whatever it was isn't too bad a result against crusaders, crusaders would have beaten other NL1 teams by that margin this year. Whether it was the full Crusaders side I'm not sure. It was a fairly strong squad mate Yes I know, I just hope RLIF don't miss a valuable opurtunity to put France into the tournament. But my point is its only valuable if it works, if it doesnt then it may damage one of, if not the only profitable IRL comps ever! Not too many people are gonna come see France get dicked in Sydney, Auckland or Wigan if they know a quality clash with the Aussies, Kiwis or Poms is coming up next week. As long as they aren't getting killed 60-0 every game keep them there. Eventually they will win games, when more French players make their way into SL and Toulose get a license the French team should be a force to be reckoned with. Besides I think they could very well notch up a win in 2009 or 2010. But again if England can put 40 into france not just in a one off but as they have for years what could Australia do if they really let loose? The kiwis put out basiacally a poor team which had been beaten in 3 consecutive tests and still beat France I would be prepared to have a wager that France do not win a game in 2009 or 2010, i think your being unrealistic about their chances. I am as enthusiastic about the growth of French league as anyone but it wont happen overnight, lets see what happens in the WC and how Catalans go next year. I try not to use other sports as examples but Italy and Scotland barely win any games in Union 6 nations but they will always be there. Why not use other sports, if anything it will be even harder in league because the physical fitness is the biggest aspect of winning a game Yes but France will get better and they could well have put in their best performance in 15 years if they had a full side available. now your talking Im thinking 10-15 years until they could really be called a genuine contender Well potenitally they could have a team full of full time players considering 20 players come from Catalans I imagine all those would do full time training with the top squad. Also the 4 that are training with the Broncos should have very good fitness for the cup. If they can stay injury free then they will have a competetive sqaud, the 4 guys with the Broncos can only be good for the French game in general, but all 24 players need to be almost 100% injury free. I think France and PNG very well could get within 20 points of the big teams, I'm not even discounting an upset although it would be hard for France seeing as they will have to play a team in form if they reach the semis. I disagree mate alot of Australians are saying that PNG will beat England in Townsville and the final will be Australia and NZ. Im sure they are mate, Im sure they are.....................they been listening to gus too much A Aus v NZ final im fully ready for, but the supergroup is contrived and we all know this. There is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE of PNG doing England, it will be hot, they will be pumped, there will be thousands of Aussies cheering PNG but come on they havent beaten us for about 10 years home or away, its farcical to even suggest it from what will be a part time side in PNG |
|
jim
Marquee Player
Posts: 1,150
|
Post by jim on Aug 23, 2008 22:16:06 GMT 10
But my point is its only valuable if it works, if it doesnt then it may damage one of, if not the only profitable IRL comps ever! Not too many people are gonna come see France get dicked in Sydney, Auckland or Wigan if they know a quality clash with the Aussies, Kiwis or Poms is coming up next week. Well I suppose it does hinge on France being competitive, I think they will be able to compete but time will tell I suppose. I'm sure the tournament can still make a tidy profit even if France don't do well. Next year I presume the 4 nations will be held all in England and France with one game in Australia or New Zealand. Of those game France's games against Australia and NZ in France to raise some interest in the country itself. I see no reason why a France 4 nations international couldn't sell out Aime Giral and get 12,000+ to Toulouse or Paris. Also France V England could be the opening ceremony in England somewhere so that would sell quite well. Personally I would go with somethinglike this: ENG V FRA - KC Stadium, Hull, England NZL V AUS - Suncorp Stadium/Eden Park, Brisbane/Auckland ENG V AUS - Elland Road, Leeds, England FRA V NZL - Aime Giral, Perpignan, France FRA V AUS - Ernest Wallon, Toulouse, France ENG V NZL - City Of Manchester Stadium, Manchester, England Final - Wembley Stadium, London, England On Paper that could be a very profitable tournament. But again if England can put 40 into france not just in a one off but as they have for years what could Australia do if they really let loose? The kiwis put out basiacally a poor team which had been beaten in 3 consecutive tests and still beat France I would be prepared to have a wager that France do not win a game in 2009 or 2010, i think your being unrealistic about their chances. I am as enthusiastic about the growth of French league as anyone but it wont happen overnight, lets see what happens in the WC and how Catalans go next year. Well time will tell I suppose, I think they will keep improving and with the squad they have and with alot of young Franchies coming up through Catalans I think the future is bright. Keep in mind the Kiwis only lost to GB by 6 points in 2 games. The NZ side that played GB in the 3rd test would have been pretty much the same as the one that played France and there wasn't much difference in results. now your talking Im thinking 10-15 years until they could really be called a genuine contender Yes true, I'm not expecting France to win the thing, not for a while anyway. If they can stay injury free then they will have a competetive sqaud, the 4 guys with the Broncos can only be good for the French game in general, but all 24 players need to be almost 100% injury free. I wonder if there's any chance one of them will be signed with the broncos? Probably not but it will be a great boost for France even though I would only have 1 of them in my French Squad but it ain't me picking it I suppose. I wondering if they are playing any games? Surely France would have them playing in the Brisbane leagues if not a higher level. Fingers crossed for all teams especially France and NZ. Gossard is out already I think and there are a few Frenchies out for Catalans ATM, fingers crossed they get a full strength side on the park. Im sure they are mate, Im sure they are.....................they been listening to gus too much A Aus v NZ final im fully ready for, but the supergroup is contrived and we all know this. There is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE of PNG doing England, it will be hot, they will be pumped, there will be thousands of Aussies cheering PNG but come on they havent beaten us for about 10 years home or away, its farcical to even suggest it from what will be a part time side in PNG I agree with you, I would like to see PNG beat someone in this tournament but they're squad in all honesty is one of the weakest, mind you one of the most Authentic. The PNG locals will be of a decent standard I would think, I thought I heard somewhere that alot of PNG players are professionals and pretty much full time, still I doubt they would have the infastructure to be anywhere near NRL or SL quality. I would like to see a club or two take on some PNG juniors, maybe a club could do an agreement to take on two or three PNG under 20 players a year. |
|
. Although the did lose out to Celtic this year and Celtic went OK against Leeds. Vereya on the other hand...
I know, bad example probably.