Foreign Teams In French Elite

[jim]

I noticed a thread of TRL about the possibility of "foriegn" teams entering the French Elite. I will quote Cliff Spracklen's post because it's very interesting stuff as always.

Before that though I'd like to throw my thoughts in. I feel Barcelona is a must within 5 years, preferably with the backing of FC Barcelona. They are a stones throw away from teams in French Catalonia so geography is on their side, they have also managed to establish a 9 team uni comp in a short space of time and attract 4,000 locals to a SL game and 1,500 to a Catalonia "International" so there is a decent level of support there. Playing talent wise they may need to get their best on loan at elite clubs or prehaps spend a season or two in Elite 2 in preperation for Elite 1.

The other short term option would be a team from Italy, a country that has a "rugby culture" in existence already. Now this would probably require the backing of a Union club and they would probably have to cherry pick the best of the Italian talent and start in Elite 2. Maybe they could start a fresh league club and look to enter it but I would imagine it would only be able to happen, atleast short term anyway if a Union club with good finances fielded a League team. There are also a few Italian internationals in Elite so they would be prime targets IMO.

I would love to see either or both of the above happen, and in time I think they can. Other options would be limited to Germany, Belgium and Netherlands and as much as I would like to say they are a chance like Italy, I don't think they would be for some time, atleast 10 years anyway.

[jim]

From Cliff

Cliff_Spracklen said:

No "great analysis" from me but hopefully some commonsense observations.
1. That the French Elite Championship is down to 9 clubs is for me a disappointment. The number is such that it is going to be harder to "market", let alone provide a viable championship. It is bizarre that the Elite 2 fixtures have been released but not the Elite One. Elite 2 will have 12 clubs, some of whom are potentially "big hitters" for the future, like Montpellier and Lyon-Villeurbanne.
I imagine that with no Head of the LER, since the resignation of Jean-Alain rives, that there is a lot of scratching of heads as to how to provide enough games, and whether to re-introduce the "extra games" concept.
The first priority for the FFR13 is to secure a Head of the LER.
Secondly it needs to be working towards the LER as the flagship competition, incorporating flagship clubs in certain key areas.
Montpellier is a must. A very affluent city that has been successful in raising the profile of RL in the city. If the results on the field were a little disappointing last year that is because the club on its own admission gave a priority to raising the sports profile in the area, rather than just strengthening the team. This has worked.
Former Head Coach at Montpellier, Patrick Pedrazzani, who has since been named DTN (Directeur Technique National by the Federation) was clear last year that September 2010 was the target for promotion. patrick was already "moving upstairs" to be Directeur Sportif at Montpellier, before the DTN confirmation, with Fred Macerou taking over the "hands on" bit.
Lyon needs to be brought back up to the mark. Again here there is great potential, not just because of the huge population, but the development work that the Lgue Rhone-Alpes has been doing, under the Chairmanship of the energetic Jaques Cavezzan, with new amateur clubs and more youngsters playing. A reborn LVR though will need some help in its branding and marketing.
Albi is another treiziste heartland with lots of other junior clubs in the area. Sadly they did what promoted clubs over here often do they went for the "quick fix" and splashed out money they did not have, and subsequently went bust. A replica of Marseille three years ago, and Grand Avignon prior to that.
Corbeil from the Ile de France will not be moving up, but remain the strongest club near to Paris. But before a Belgian team plays in the LER the game in the IDF needs to be considerably strenghened, as well as in the northern Rhone.
There are players of Italian origin in the LER, Cyril Armani of SO avignon and Remy Fontana of Carpentras both played for Italy recently. New FC Lezignan Coach Aurelien Cologni has the same background. You could probably get an "Italian Origin" team together quite easily, in the same way that Jerome Alonson, formerly at Carpentras (and Bramley), and new Cooach at Elite 2 Entraigues, ran a Spanish Origin team at the Lezignan 9's, winning it one year.
The problems of bringing in an Italian club is not only the standards, but geography. it is similar to the Belgium situation. Fill the geographical gap first. Get a strong Paris Elite presence, and then maybe Lille (twinned with Leeds incidentally) and Belgium is suddenly a bit closer.
Ditto Italy. The nearest LER club currently would be Carpentras. But let us see Maraseille back and then maybe a revival of Cannes X111, so successful under Steve Deakin.
Marseille XIII Avenir are going well as a club. The Juniors (Academy) won the French Federal Junior Championship and were almost entered into the elite Juniors.
But give them time to progress at their own pace and they will be back.
Then the LER starts to look solid, marketable, with a more "national" geographic spread.
Bordeaux and the Atlantic Coast may take longer, but I am delighted to see a revival of the old Facture name from the Gironde next year, albeit as an Ecole de Rugby.
Barcelona is slightly different. There is a strong LER presence right up to the Spanish border. There is a developing Catalan competition over the border. Currently the playing level is much lower. But given the asuccess of the Dragons Barcelona experiment, and the fact that "things Catalan" can bring in a lot of regional government and financial interest, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a Barcelona club, probably as part of the FC Barca organisation could be fast-tracked into a cross-border competition.
But for me the priority fdor the Federation has to be to get the LER back to what it was with at least 3 new clubs.
Whilst I am right behind the Toulouse Championship and SL ambition (I do a bit on the TO official website on the Championship every week) the clubs ascendacy into the Championship is seen as a creating a void by other LER clubs.
TO will not be running a team in the LER next season. Instead it will have a partnership with St Gaudens and will offload surplus players there. It will also support with players the Toulouse Jules Julien club, who will play in Elite 2 next season, with a squad vastly different from this year's. So watch the Toulouse space longer term.
But cross-border collaboration at the appropriate level is a must. It has certainly happened between French and Catalan Universities.
I sometimes felt that Paris/IDF clubs might be better off with their own summer competition on the lines of the Rugby league Conference here. That would certainly give an opportunity for Belgian participation.
But I can't see something similar happening say in the Provence Cote d'Azur region.
Nicolas Larrat has announced the creation of Development Officers for Commitees and Ligues to bid for which could impact on the more distant RL areas like IDF/Nantes. Bordeaux etc.
My own long term hope is for a revival in the Basque country, but if the Federation can see IDF developing, Montpellier, Marseille and Lyon back the LWER starts to look more marketable, and potentially more capable of effecting a trans-national dimension.

[Druzik]

Aug 4, 2009 22:34:26 GMT 10 jim said:

Before that though I'd like to throw my thoughts in. I feel Barcelona is a must within 5 years, preferably with the backing of FC Barcelona. They are a stones throw away from teams in French Catalonia so geography is on their side, they have also managed to establish a 9 team uni comp in a short space of time and attract 4,000 locals to a SL game and 1,500 to a Catalonia "International" so there is a decent level of support there. Playing talent wise they may need to get their best on loan at elite clubs or prehaps spend a season or two in Elite 2 in preperation for Elite 1.

Simon Cooper threw this one open for some reason... geography aside I dont see wht Barcelona has to be in elite... throwing all these teams into one or two comps will only restrict and kill the local comps. Catalonia has its own good vibrant comp now why kill it off beofre it evenb has a chance to start?

The other short term option would be a team from Italy, a country that has a "rugby culture" in existence already. Now this would probably require the backing of a Union club and they would probably have to cherry pick the best of the Italian talent and start in Elite 2. Maybe they could start a fresh league club and look to enter it but I would imagine it would only be able to happen, atleast short term anyway if a Union club with good finances fielded a League team. There are also a few Italian internationals in Elite so they would be prime targets IMO.

Italy is very far to travel... particularly Padua where the team would most prob be based. French and italian teams dont have that monay to travel. besides why do we have to continualy rely on Union to get us started... lets concentrate on league comps in each individual country.

I would love to see either or both of the above happen, and in time I think they can. Other options would be limited to Germany, Belgium and Netherlands and as much as I would like to say they are a chance like Italy, I don't think they would be for some time, at least 10 years anyway.

Forget it... the distances involved and money is just not ther in league and never will be on a domestic scale, internationals yes but not clubs... once again lets get the local comps doing.

[Marv]

I think you would A, have to set up a bona fide Barcelona club firstly and then B, have them winning the Catalonian comp before you even considered that.

Without wantiong to pour too much water on the fire (druzik has done a good job already!) you would have to say the money and reward plus the standard of Rugby is not good enough in the Elite either, teams in France outside of the french heatland are struggling, like Lyon so you have to say the division looks a mile off being able to welcome in other teams from other nations.

[jim]

Aug 4, 2009 23:01:34 GMT 10 Druzik said:

Simon Cooper threw this one open for some reason... geography aside I dont see wht Barcelona has to be in elite... throwing all these teams into one or two comps will only restrict and kill the local comps. Catalonia has its own good vibrant comp now why kill it off beofre it evenb has a chance to start?

Who's saying it would kill off the Catalonian comp? I don't think that would happen at all and I can't see any reason why it would.

If Barcelona don't get a team and no scouting is done in the area then we could have 3 world class players running around wasted in an ametuer comp for all we know. If they have a team in the Elite the best Spanish will be able to test themselves at a higher level without having to move to France or the UK. I'm sure the club game can survive aswell.

I think before too long despite what any of us say Barcelona will be looking at a bigger stage to play on, anyway we'll have to wait and see i suppose.

Not too related but I do think this is a good idea, a european club championship. Would be nice to see the best clubs from "emerging nations" playoff against each other and then the winner get better oposition

Maybe something like this:

Eastern Europe group:
Russian Champions
Ukraine Champions
Serbia Champions
Latvia/Estonia champions

Central Europue group:
German champions
Italy champions
Czech champions
Netherlands champions

Western Europue Group:
Spanish Champions
French Federale champions
Belgium Champions
Morocco champions

UK/Ireland group:
Irish champions
Wales champions
Scotland champions
RLCN champions

The winner of these 4 groups then get drawn to play

Championship 1 champions
Championship champions
Elite 1 champions
Elite 2 champions

then a simple knockout from there.

Not sure, that might take too long but I definatley think we need to get the best clubs from across europue in more competition.

[Druzik]

Time Jim, when would you have that played, the seasons are just too short and the players are mostly cross coders, only Russia and Serbia and prob thr Germans and Czechs would field League only teams... and then I would hazzard a guess they would get hampered by Union clubs in using fields....

Look Remember League in not Soccer when it comes to the domestic game, we cant have 3 games ina week and the players all recover, league needs at least a week to recover and so you would have an 6-8 week comp the way you have it on top of everything else.

Also remember that teams having to travel around Europe would have server $$ constraints. Its hard enough to travel in some countries for comps let alone into other countries... its why theyu all save their money for when they get into the national squads to travel... again only the Serbs and Russians I would hazzard a guess would be able to afford to send domestic teams abroad.

Look expansion is all fine jim I am all for it, but it has to be done withing reasonable limits, just because one match is a success here and there does not automatically mean that we need to go and just form pro teams... it just doesnt work like that in Europe, it may in Oz but not Europe, there needs to be more substance there for these things to work... and its not there yet, its getting there, but its a way off yet to be abywhere to where you want it to be.