Samoa

[Kiwi fan]

Oct 25, 2009 11:05:32 GMT 10 jim said:

Oct 25, 2009 5:34:00 GMT 10 muffdiver said:

looks like the Cook Is beat Fiji!!

Would be great to see them in the 4 nations next year!!!

I hate to be a negative ned, but no. A country of 20,000 who has no NRL players and would get killed. By introducing the promotion for the 4N the RLIF were hopeing for PNG and France to win whilst giving the others an oppurtunity to keep them happy. If the Cooks Islands made the 4N the move would be a major backfire IMO. Credit to them they are only playing to the system and are playing well.

I still think PNG should have them in the final but iut has got me a bit worried.

I agree completely. It is good that The Cook Islands can get to the final but we don't want to see them win it. Full credit to them if they do but it could make the tournament lose credibility.

[supersteve]

I disagree. Cook Islands, as has already been said, is a tiny nation and if they somehow manage to beat Samoa, Fiji and PNG then good luck to them, and IMO they would deserve their spot in the 4N. True they dont have NRL or ESL players but they do have Toyota cup players, and Toyota cup is a very good standard of RL.

Sure it probably wont do any favours in terms of promoting a match of say Australia v Cook Islands, but perhaps it could be played at a regional area or something.

Its not going to happen anyway, PNG will win very comfortably next weekend.

[jim]

Oct 25, 2009 20:07:45 GMT 10 supersteve said:

I disagree. Cook Islands, as has already been said, is a tiny nation and if they somehow manage to beat Samoa, Fiji and PNG then good luck to them, and IMO they would deserve their spot in the 4N. True they dont have NRL or ESL players but they do have Toyota cup players, and Toyota cup is a very good standard of RL.

Sure it probably wont do any favours in terms of promoting a match of say Australia v Cook Islands, but perhaps it could be played at a regional area or something.

Its not going to happen anyway, PNG will win very comfortably next weekend.

If they earn their spot well done to them but it wouldn't be for the good of the game IMO. Selling a match V Cook Islands would be impossible and RL's credibility would take a massive hit having a Nation so very small in it's second biggest International Tournament.

[Druzik]

OH FFS.

Lets just not have Cook Is and other nations play RL.

That the point of having them in the PI's and giving the incentive to win if "we don't want them in there".

Sorry but the Cookies have done damn well to get to where they are. If they are the best team and win the tournament, then they have proven to have the right to play in the 4N.

What more of a sensational story and feel good story to push than the total underdog! This is what its all about. The David taking on the Goliaths.

I am sure if Cooks went through you'd have the Polynesian's coming out to support them, weather from the Cooks, tonga or Samoa.

Bloody hell!

Its like telling Barrow not to bother turning up to play and try and win the Championships because they are a bad image for the sport.

[supersteve]

Oct 25, 2009 22:21:50 GMT 10 Druzik said:

OH FFS.

Lets just not have Cook Is and other nations play RL.

That the point of having them in the PI's and giving the incentive to win if "we don't want them in there".

Sorry but the Cookies have done damn well to get to where they are. If they are the best team and win the tournament, then they have proven to have the right to play in the 4N.

What more of a sensational story and feel good story to push than the total underdog! This is what its all about. The David taking on the Goliaths.

I am sure if Cooks went through you'd have the Polynesian's coming out to support them, weather from the Cooks, tonga or Samoa.

Bloody hell!

Its like telling Barrow not to bother turning up to play and try and win the Championships because they are a bad image for the sport.

Couldnt agree more.

[Seluman]

Oct 25, 2009 22:21:50 GMT 10 Druzik said:

OH FFS.

Lets just not have Cook Is and other nations play RL.

That the point of having them in the PI's and giving the incentive to win if "we don't want them in there".

Sorry but the Cookies have done damn well to get to where they are. If they are the best team and win the tournament, then they have proven to have the right to play in the 4N.

What more of a sensational story and feel good story to push than the total underdog! This is what its all about. The David taking on the Goliaths.

I am sure if Cooks went through you'd have the Polynesian's coming out to support them, weather from the Cooks, tonga or Samoa.

Bloody hell!

Its like telling Barrow not to bother turning up to play and try and win the Championships because they are a bad image for the sport.

Well said Druzik

[sportsmad]

this is a tough one. i think jim chose his words very carefully and definately didnt imply that cook islands wouldnt deserve to be in the four nations. i think we can all agree that if they win on the weekend they certainly deserve it and it would be one of the greatest sporting achievements for the nation of 20,000 people. theyve had to do it the hard way in playing a qualification game in order to even get in.

however, this will be the first year the relegation system will be used in the four nations and will be heavily scrutonised by all. no one wants to see triple figure scorelines in our premier league competition. PNG almost beat England in last years world cup and are by far the most likely to spring an upset. marketing australia v cook islands would be a very very difficult task. the 2010 four nations will signal a crossroads for the tournament and international rugby league desperately needs it to be a success. theres too many steps that could be taken backwards. a competetive tournament is a successful tournament and i dont belive the cook islands could offer this.

[supersteve]

True a CI fixture probably wouldnt get many to the game, but really Fiji, Samoa and the like arent a huge drawcard either.

As Druzik has said, the Islanders would all get behind the Cookies. It wouldnt be played in a big stadium, as Ive suggested before it could be played in a regional centre. Even out at Penrith might be ok, with a heavy PI population there, however probably North QLD would be better. I certainly dont think it would be detrimental to the 4N tournament if they somehow beat PNG.

[Druzik]

Oct 26, 2009 14:34:12 GMT 10 sportsmad said:

this is a tough one. i think jim chose his words very carefully and definately didnt imply that cook islands wouldnt deserve to be in the four nations. i think we can all agree that if they win on the weekend they certainly deserve it and it would be one of the greatest sporting achievements for the nation of 20,000 people. theyve had to do it the hard way in playing a qualification game in order to even get in.

20,000 in Australia and another 20,000 in NZ from what I hear... what we cant find 10-15k Cook islanders or other PI fans to turn up? Look I was in Fiji the day after they won the Rugby Union 7's world championshuips in 2005 beating the all blacks... the place was in raptures, I have never seen everyone celebrtaing from the top officials down to the fish in the ocean... it will be a massive thing... but it will only be as big as the media plays it out to be, that's why we need to get the media to change their attitudes to these nation and IRL in general.

however, this will be the first year the relegation system will be used in the four nations and will be heavily scrutonised by all. no one wants to see triple figure scorelines in our premier league competition. PNG almost beat England in last years world cup and are by far the most likely to spring an upset. marketing australia v cook islands would be a very very difficult task. the 2010 four nations will signal a crossroads for the tournament and international rugby league desperately needs it to be a success. theres too many steps that could be taken backwards. a competetive tournament is a successful tournament and i dont belive the cook islands could offer this.

You forget that many of the cook Islanders are in the NYC and also in the NSW and QLD cups. This bids well to puch those competitions as well, to show that their standard is very high as well.... I think its not that difficult to push, you just have to be smart about it... call them the pride of the pacific, take on the underdof tag and run with it. Countries only offer what we allow them to offer in the end.

Would an Australia v PNG match get any more than the Cook Islanders? PNG v Australia only had 16k, England v PNG only had 10k, NZ v PNG only had 11k ... I think the Cook Islanders can easliy match that.

[jim]

Oct 26, 2009 15:20:26 GMT 10 supersteve said:

True a CI fixture probably wouldnt get many to the game, but really Fiji, Samoa and the like arent a huge drawcard either.

As Druzik has said, the Islanders would all get behind the Cookies. It wouldnt be played in a big stadium, as Ive suggested before it could be played in a regional centre. Even out at Penrith might be ok, with a heavy PI population there, however probably North QLD would be better. I certainly dont think it would be detrimental to the 4N tournament if they somehow beat PNG.

It's a tough one, if they win they definatley deserve to be there and I for one will support them. Not to say I want the Cooks to give up and I'm going to sound like an ass here but I really don't think they have the potenital to push past the second tier of RL, PNG have massive potential. They will always have Australiajn based players and may provide a few NRL players home grown from time to time. I just don't think having a nation that is incapable of hosting a profitable home international as part of our Elite tournament.

Cooks playing might sell to Islanders but I don't think it would to anyone else. Scenario, I'm an avid IRL fan, support it more than 1 in 100 people in Rugby League heartlands. I'll be going to 4N games next year and If I had the choice of these game in Australia:

AUS V NZ
AUS V ENG
AUS V PNG
AUS V CKI
ENG V CKI

Both Cook Island games would be priority 4 and 5 and I think I'd be hard pressed selling the latter two to any of my mates or my brother who has come to 4 tests with me in the last 12 months. If PNG win I will be going to Aus V PNG, Aus V England and maybe the final.

This all my opinion and very well done to the Cooks if they make it, I will support them, some Islanders will support them, big fans of Intertnationals will support them but most people won't, they will consider it laughable that a nation of 20,000 is deemed the best in the world and that's the sad reality really. I think Cook Islands V Australia would really struggle to get 10k anywhere you played it and would most likely end up with a margin of 60+.

[Marv]

Oct 25, 2009 22:21:50 GMT 10 Druzik said:

OH FFS.

Lets just not have Cook Is and other nations play RL.

That the point of having them in the PI's and giving the incentive to win if "we don't want them in there".

Sorry but the Cookies have done damn well to get to where they are. If they are the best team and win the tournament, then they have proven to have the right to play in the 4N.

What more of a sensational story and feel good story to push than the total underdog! This is what its all about. The David taking on the Goliaths.

I am sure if Cooks went through you'd have the Polynesian's coming out to support them, weather from the Cooks, tonga or Samoa.

Bloody hell!

Its like telling Barrow not to bother turning up to play and try and win the Championships because they are a bad image for the sport.

Im afraid thats sentimental rubbish mate, having such a tiny nation in the 4N is a joke, there should be a minimum off field standard that nations have to apply to to be in the 4N. There is not one single cook based player in that squad and your lauding them, utterly unbelievable.

PNG and France are the only nations that should be considered for the 4N and allthough the cooks have done great, I hope we see PNG win the comp.

If the Cooks, with a population arguably less than the number of registered players in France, were admitted, meaning France had to play euro cup it would be a farce

[Marv]

Oct 26, 2009 18:44:56 GMT 10 jim said:

Oct 26, 2009 15:20:26 GMT 10 supersteve said:

True a CI fixture probably wouldnt get many to the game, but really Fiji, Samoa and the like arent a huge drawcard either.

As Druzik has said, the Islanders would all get behind the Cookies. It wouldnt be played in a big stadium, as Ive suggested before it could be played in a regional centre. Even out at Penrith might be ok, with a heavy PI population there, however probably North QLD would be better. I certainly dont think it would be detrimental to the 4N tournament if they somehow beat PNG.

It's a tough one, if they win they definatley deserve to be there and I for one will support them. Not to say I want the Cooks to give up and I'm going to sound like an ass here but I really don't think they have the potenital to push past the second tier of RL, PNG have massive potential. They will always have Australiajn based players and may provide a few NRL players home grown from time to time. I just don't think having a nation that is incapable of hosting a profitable home international as part of our Elite tournament.

Cooks playing might sell to Islanders but I don't think it would to anyone else. Scenario, I'm an avid IRL fan, support it more than 1 in 100 people in Rugby League heartlands. I'll be going to 4N games next year and If I had the choice of these game in Australia:

AUS V NZ
AUS V ENG
AUS V PNG
AUS V CKI
ENG V CKI

Both Cook Island games would be priority 4 and 5 and I think I'd be hard pressed selling the latter two to any of my mates or my brother who has come to 4 tests with me in the last 12 months. If PNG win I will be going to Aus V PNG, Aus V England and maybe the final.

This all my opinion and very well done to the Cooks if they make it, I will support them, some Islanders will support them, big fans of Intertnationals will support them but most people won't, they will consider it laughable that a nation of 20,000 is deemed the best in the world and that's the sad reality really. I think Cook Islands V Australia would really struggle to get 10k anywhere you played it and would most likely end up with a margin of 60+.

Your deat set right Jim, I was gonna go to England V France, but I knew the result would go in Englands favour, I knew the games agaianst Aus and NZ would be better test spectacles for the elite international competition. When my finances said I could go to one or two of the three games, I knew which one I was missing out on.

[Druzik]

Oct 26, 2009 20:38:10 GMT 10 Marv said:

Oct 25, 2009 22:21:50 GMT 10 Druzik said:

OH FFS.

Lets just not have Cook Is and other nations play RL.

That the point of having them in the PI's and giving the incentive to win if "we don't want them in there".

Sorry but the Cookies have done damn well to get to where they are. If they are the best team and win the tournament, then they have proven to have the right to play in the 4N.

What more of a sensational story and feel good story to push than the total underdog! This is what its all about. The David taking on the Goliaths.

I am sure if Cooks went through you'd have the Polynesian's coming out to support them, weather from the Cooks, tonga or Samoa.

Bloody hell!

Its like telling Barrow not to bother turning up to play and try and win the Championships because they are a bad image for the sport.

Im afraid thats sentimental rubbish mate, having such a tiny nation in the 4N is a joke, there should be a minimum off field standard that nations have to apply to to be in the 4N. There is not one single cook based player in that squad and your lauding them, utterly unbelievable.

PNG and France are the only nations that should be considered for the 4N and allthough the cooks have done great, I hope we see PNG win the comp.

If the Cooks, with a population arguably less than the number of registered players in France, were admitted, meaning France had to play euro cup it would be a farce

So why the fuck are we bothering with Pacific and Atlantic cups then?

Just have them play in a 5 nations and piss everyone else off... simple done, and this way we havent "wasted" over $1 million of the RLIFs money.

[Druzik]

Oct 26, 2009 21:51:57 GMT 10 Marv said:

Oct 26, 2009 18:44:56 GMT 10 jim said:

It's a tough one, if they win they definatley deserve to be there and I for one will support them. Not to say I want the Cooks to give up and I'm going to sound like an ass here but I really don't think they have the potenital to push past the second tier of RL, PNG have massive potential. They will always have Australiajn based players and may provide a few NRL players home grown from time to time. I just don't think having a nation that is incapable of hosting a profitable home international as part of our Elite tournament.

Cooks playing might sell to Islanders but I don't think it would to anyone else. Scenario, I'm an avid IRL fan, support it more than 1 in 100 people in Rugby League heartlands. I'll be going to 4N games next year and If I had the choice of these game in Australia:

AUS V NZ
AUS V ENG
AUS V PNG
AUS V CKI
ENG V CKI

Both Cook Island games would be priority 4 and 5 and I think I'd be hard pressed selling the latter two to any of my mates or my brother who has come to 4 tests with me in the last 12 months. If PNG win I will be going to Aus V PNG, Aus V England and maybe the final.

This all my opinion and very well done to the Cooks if they make it, I will support them, some Islanders will support them, big fans of Intertnationals will support them but most people won't, they will consider it laughable that a nation of 20,000 is deemed the best in the world and that's the sad reality really. I think Cook Islands V Australia would really struggle to get 10k anywhere you played it and would most likely end up with a margin of 60+.

Your deat set right Jim, I was gonna go to England V France, but I knew the result would go in Englands favour, I knew the games agaianst Aus and NZ would be better test spectacles for the elite international competition. When my finances said I could go to one or two of the three games, I knew which one I was missing out on.

BUt there were 11k that thought the game was worthy of their money... just as there will be people that think an Australia v Cook Islands match is worth their money.

[Marv]

Oct 26, 2009 22:38:05 GMT 10 Druzik said:

Oct 26, 2009 20:38:10 GMT 10 Marv said:

Im afraid thats sentimental rubbish mate, having such a tiny nation in the 4N is a joke, there should be a minimum off field standard that nations have to apply to to be in the 4N. There is not one single cook based player in that squad and your lauding them, utterly unbelievable.

PNG and France are the only nations that should be considered for the 4N and allthough the cooks have done great, I hope we see PNG win the comp.

If the Cooks, with a population arguably less than the number of registered players in France, were admitted, meaning France had to play euro cup it would be a farce

So why the fuck are we bothering with Pacific and Atlantic cups then?

Just have them play in a 5 nations and piss everyone else off... simple done, and this way we havent "wasted" over $1 million of the RLIFs money.

Thers no reason why we shouldnt have Pacific and Euro and Atlantic cups, but what we should have is a minimum standard of entry to the 4N. I dont think its much to ask FFS.

Why are you advocating that a team of G/P heritage players should be in the 4N over a nation like France, and dont say they earned it, cos they havent, they have just been fortunate enough to find 20 guys whos nannas comes from the cooks and are knocking around the aussie system.

You make a point and use Barrow as an example, well Barrow won the league mate, and guess what, because someone has finally seen sense and that yo-yoing clubs does nothing to strengthen the game, we dont go up, just like if the cooks win this comp, great, but they should NOT, EVER be in this competition at the expense of France or PNG.

Having a minimum domestic standard applies to the WC and I feel it should be re-inforced for the 4N but harder. It might make nations like Tonga and Scotland look a bit closer to home, and I dont see how thats a bad thing.

This is the top level RL comp in the world, its more intense than a WC. per 50 players the quality of a 4N compared to the WC would be huge, the quality of applicant in the 4N should be so much more stringent than a WC.