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Post by Ryan N on May 11, 2009 22:35:48 GMT 10
Personally, I would make it a 3 team series, PNG, NZ and Pacific Islands. Although I havn't put too much thought into it. 2 games each around origin time. One game in PNG, one in Fiji/Samoa/Tonga, one in NZ. I don't like the idea of including PNG in the Pacific side because population wise they are a bigger country than NZ and no doubt before long more players would get snapped up by NRL clubs with the exposure from playing in this type of comp. Skill wise PNG isn't up to the standard. Even if they are a bigger nation doesn't mean they have better players. You have to wait for Australian clubs to snap players up from PNG before they are even good enough for consideration. However, playing the game there is much more viable than in one of the island nations, or despite the fact it wouldn't be ideal, play one in Sydney/Brisbane when Origin is in Brisbane/Sydney or Melbourne. Theoretically you don't even need to include PNG in the Pacific Islands team, there isn't an issue with them switching just because of Origin. I just figured as a marketing thing, and because technically they are a Pacific Island nation they should be included. Also, in Rugby Union they have fringe New Zealand players in the Pacific Islands team, however I don't like this idea in Rugby League, because they could then theoretically say they were playing in the PI team because they wanted to be eligible for New Zealand yadayada. This is more of an Origin style thing in New Zealand, rather than internationals, which is why you don't include PNG seperate. And it also gives the players from the Islander nations a reason to stay on with their home land or whatever rather than switch for Origin or because New Zealand/Australia gets more regular games. |
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Post by Druzik on May 11, 2009 22:38:23 GMT 10
Just based on the World Cup, okay maybe some have retired etc., and maybe some of them aren't good enough anymore, because there's plenty of young players just as good coming through. So i can't give you anything for certain. But Ben Roberts has played for New Zealand in the halves, and Stanley Gene can be magnificent, so that's probably where New Zealand would go down, the halves. Fien's a hooker fools. And yes John Wilshire he's a brilliant player. 1. John Wilshire (PNG) 2. Taniela Tuiaki (Tonga) 3. Jarryd Hayne (Fiji) 4. Nigel Vagana (Samoa) 5. Tony Williams (Tonga) 6. Stanley Gene (PNG) 7. Ben Roberts (Samoa) 8. FuiFui MoiMoi (Tonga) 9. Paul Aiton (PNG) 10. Makali Aizue (PNG) 11. Ashton Sims (Fiji) 12. Feleti Mateo (Tonga) 13. Tevita Leo-Latu (Tonga) Take Gene and Vagana out as they are retired from rep footy, but have Reni Maitua in there at 4. Hayne has gone and friggin switched to Aus for origin already. Fui well who knows who he wants to represent. |
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Post by Ryan N on May 11, 2009 22:41:43 GMT 10
Just based on the World Cup, okay maybe some have retired etc., and maybe some of them aren't good enough anymore, because there's plenty of young players just as good coming through. So i can't give you anything for certain. But Ben Roberts has played for New Zealand in the halves, and Stanley Gene can be magnificent, so that's probably where New Zealand would go down, the halves. Fien's a hooker fools. And yes John Wilshire he's a brilliant player. 1. John Wilshire (PNG) 2. Taniela Tuiaki (Tonga) 3. Jarryd Hayne (Fiji) 4. Nigel Vagana (Samoa) 5. Tony Williams (Tonga) 6. Stanley Gene (PNG) 7. Ben Roberts (Samoa) 8. FuiFui MoiMoi (Tonga) 9. Paul Aiton (PNG) 10. Makali Aizue (PNG) 11. Ashton Sims (Fiji) 12. Feleti Mateo (Tonga) 13. Tevita Leo-Latu (Tonga) Take Gene and Vagana out as they are retired from rep footy, but have Reni Maitua in there at 4. Hayne has gone and friggin switched to Aus for origin already. Fui well who knows who he wants to represent. Yep I figured sometime they were gone. Yeah there are some many players that can fill the spot anyway. As for Fui, Tuiaki and Hayne, I was using those players to demonstrate how this series thingo may have changed their opinions and minds about switching. |
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Post by Druzik on May 11, 2009 22:54:46 GMT 10
Take Gene and Vagana out as they are retired from rep footy, but have Reni Maitua in there at 4. Hayne has gone and friggin switched to Aus for origin already. Fui well who knows who he wants to represent. Yep I figured sometime they were gone. Yeah there are some many players that can fill the spot anyway. As for Fui, Tuiaki and Hayne, I was using those players to demonstrate how this series thingo may have changed their opinions and minds about switching. Yeah right... but with Fui I think he is almost a mercenary and will go where ever in reality. ;D |
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Post by Ryan N on May 11, 2009 22:59:32 GMT 10
Yep I figured sometime they were gone. Yeah there are some many players that can fill the spot anyway. As for Fui, Tuiaki and Hayne, I was using those players to demonstrate how this series thingo may have changed their opinions and minds about switching. Yeah right... but with Fui I think he is almost a mercenary and will go where ever in reality. ;D Expect him turning out for the Indian cricket team soon  |
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Post by Ryan N on May 13, 2009 10:36:48 GMT 10
Can I get someone to post my New Zealand vs. Pacific Islanders idea on LeagueUnlimited in the releveant thread (ANZAC defeat brand damage for NZ)? Please? I think it would be relevant to the discussion.
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Post by kuwaitikev on May 13, 2009 11:43:26 GMT 10
Firstly the kiwi's did compete resonably well in the test match for the first half an hour then faded badly. Unfortunately the kiwi's have fallen into the trap of playing the Australian brand of football and moved away from the confrontational in your face start. This needs to return.
We can't compete at their higher skill level but we can rattle them with big hits and put them off their game. Of course not having heavy hitters Pritchard, Smith and even Isaac Luke could be part of the reason for this.
The kiwi game plan was pretty much flawed. Lots of people have been bagging Asotasi for having a quiet game but the fact is he never got passed the ball. The kiwis just shuffled it wide too often when in fact their real strength was straight up the guts.
Adam Blair and Bronson Harrison had HUGE matches and Greg Eastwood fair flattened Anthony Laffranchi in one big hit but that was about as good as it got.
Greg Inglis and Izzy Folau were non-events, but then their brilliance wasn't required anyway with Lockyer and Thurston organising things brilliantly.
As for the origin concept, i'm struggling to find an idea that would work for NZ. We currently don't sell out test matches in Rugby League, so how anyone can expect a big crowd for a new concept against a 'possibly' new combined PI team is a bit far fetched. That's certainly what the money men at the TV channels will be thinking anyway.
I'd love to see something but realisticly it won't make money and the aussie clubs will hate having to let their precious commodities out to play extra matches where they might get injured. There are some weakened squads released with only 34 players playing origin, imagine how the Warriors would feel about losing Price, Luck, Matulino, Ropati, Hohaia, Vatuvei, Packer, Rapira, Mannering for 3 weeks of the season to play for NZ or Origin and then possible 3 or 4 more who could make a PI side?
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Post by Ryan N on May 13, 2009 11:57:04 GMT 10
Firstly the kiwi's did compete resonably well in the test match for the first half an hour then faded badly. Unfortunately the kiwi's have fallen into the trap of playing the Australian brand of football and moved away from the confrontational in your face start. This needs to return. We can't compete at their higher skill level but we can rattle them with big hits and put them off their game. Of course not having heavy hitters Pritchard, Smith and even Isaac Luke could be part of the reason for this. The kiwi game plan was pretty much flawed. Lots of people have been bagging Asotasi for having a quiet game but the fact is he never got passed the ball. The kiwis just shuffled it wide too often when in fact their real strength was straight up the guts. Adam Blair and Bronson Harrison had HUGE matches and Greg Eastwood fair flattened Anthony Laffranchi in one big hit but that was about as good as it got. Greg Inglis and Izzy Folau were non-events, but then their brilliance wasn't required anyway with Lockyer and Thurston organising things brilliantly. Yep, I was saying this. They should've tried to kill every Australian player in every tackle. Smash em, rough em up on the ground, whisper in their ear, wait til next time. Put them off. Don't try and play like it's the NRL, it's for your country! Yes, I understand that. But it can be marketed. We don't need massive crowds for it either, just sustainability, it will grow in popularity. One game in Australia too, Sydney, like I said, when Origin isn't there. And, if we implement stand alone rep weekends it shouldn't affect them, everyone's off cause of Origin, and they can come back later. Only issues I can see with the concept is Gallop and Carr etc. |
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Post by supersteve on May 13, 2009 12:14:18 GMT 10
Stand alone Rep weekends surely have to become a must in the near future. With more and more of it played it is too unfair on the teams that have multiple players out. I think its a great idea. There was talk of an annual Tonga V Samoa match happening after the WC last year also, as a curtain raiser to Origin even. As usual, it seems to have fizzled out.
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Post by kuwaitikev on May 13, 2009 12:53:53 GMT 10
I totally agree we need some stand alone weekends for rep footy.
The clubs hold too much sway over the releasing of players for any more games to ever be scheduled during origin time in the current calender (probably the number 1 reason for the Samoa v Tonga idea quietly going away).
And the dates need to be married up with the UK superleague too. Especially if PNG and Fiji are to be involved as there has been an influx of those players playing in England this season.
Why not a revamped Pacific Cup type competition including Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, PNG, Cook Islands, NZ Maori in 2 tiers.
Eg Tonga, Fiji, PNG each player each other to become Pacific champion. Cook Islands, NZ Maori, Samoa battle it out to qualify for the Pacific Cup next year (call it the Pacific Shield maybe). Bottom team from the Cup drops to the Shield comp the following year.
But I can dream lol.
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Post by Ryan N on May 13, 2009 13:06:28 GMT 10
I totally agree we need some stand alone weekends for rep footy. The clubs hold too much sway over the releasing of players for any more games to ever be scheduled during origin time in the current calender (probably the number 1 reason for the Samoa v Tonga idea quietly going away). And the dates need to be married up with the UK superleague too. Especially if PNG and Fiji are to be involved as there has been an influx of those players playing in England this season. Why not a revamped Pacific Cup type competition including Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, PNG, Cook Islands, NZ Maori in 2 tiers. Eg Tonga, Fiji, PNG each player each other to become Pacific champion. Cook Islands, NZ Maori, Samoa battle it out to qualify for the Pacific Cup next year (call it the Pacific Shield maybe). Bottom team from the Cup drops to the Shield comp the following year. But I can dream lol. Yep. It't time. Origin is killing the international game in the Pacific. We need something to draw them away from choosing Australia for Origin, something like Pacific Islands vs. New Zealand. Only problem is, it doesn't have the tradition that Origin does. Which will always still be a drawcard. What it may do is lure people away from choosing New Zealand over Tonga/Samoa/Cook Islands etc. And eventually I think it will lure guys away from Origin, but it would take years to build the game up as something special. The guys like Mateo who aren't definite Origin players might choose Pacific Islands though, because it would give them definite games at Origin time of a high level. Even if it doesn't fix the Origin problem, New Zealand gets another quality game, it will make players pledge allegiance to Pacific Islands and their respective nations and such help the international game. But you'd have to stress that the Pacific Islands team only runs during Origin. |
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Post by kuwaitikev on May 13, 2009 13:26:52 GMT 10
I'm not a fan of the Pacific Islands concept though. It didn't work in Rugby Union and I can't see it working in League.
The rivalry between the likes of Tonga and Samoa is awesome and will produce some of the most intense matches you are ever likely to see. But mix those sides together and you lose the whole passion of playing for your country.
It would be like combining an ANZAC league side to take on 'Europe'. It would be an interesting specticle but would not have the passion and fire of a true international. And just would not last long term.
And besides give the best possible Tongan or Samoan teams time to build together and they are certainly capable of upsetting NZ, GB and maybe one day Australia. A Pacific Island team would undermine that progress.
Also i'm sure there would be more desire for a player who has ties to those nations to turn out for the country of their heritage (do their family proud sort of thing) rather than some mish mash of nations.
The carrot at the end of the Pacific Cup concept is obviously more tests against NZ, Eng, Aus (4 nations, maybe even a test series against whoever isn't touring).
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Post by supersteve on May 13, 2009 14:25:50 GMT 10
Yep,
They only way players will choose their home countries over the origin is fairly simple. They need to play some bloody games!. Players arent going to pledge allegiance to a country that plays little to no major International fixtures. They do seem to be doing a bit here, which is good. But an annual Samoa V Tonga match would be fantastic in its own right. They cant make it all happen overnight, it will take some time. I think they're headed the right way.
Another way is to tighten to Origin eligibility rules. Perhaps it could be made as an Australian born player only series. Its a tricky subject though.
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Post by Ryan N on May 14, 2009 11:38:35 GMT 10
Yep, They only way players will choose their home countries over the origin is fairly simple. They need to play some bloody games!. Players arent going to pledge allegiance to a country that plays little to no major International fixtures. They do seem to be doing a bit here, which is good. But an annual Samoa V Tonga match would be fantastic in its own right. They cant make it all happen overnight, it will take some time. I think they're headed the right way. Another way is to tighten to Origin eligibility rules. Perhaps it could be made as an Australian born player only series. Its a tricky subject though. Yep i can agree now. Pacific Islands could work also though, but i am swinging to the internationals now. The reason being is that there is a culture between the islander boys over here and that would gel them together. I think no matter what, origin will still have some sort of power over players. But yeah I'd rather internationals. PNG vs. Fiji and Tonga vs. Samoa. |
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